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Bug 282754 - Using dejavu as replacement for media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera deps
Summary: Using dejavu as replacement for media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera deps
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: Gentoo Linux
Classification: Unclassified
Component: New packages (show other bugs)
Hardware: All Linux
: High enhancement (vote)
Assignee: Gentoo Fonts Team
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on: 283016 310525 335768 335770 335774 335776 335782 335784 335785 335787 335789 526838 532436 532440 532500 532512 540290 548214 548216 548218 605784
Blocks: 532388
  Show dependency tree
 
Reported: 2009-08-25 22:22 UTC by Samuli Suominen (RETIRED)
Modified: 2017-07-03 20:20 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


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Description Samuli Suominen (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2009-08-25 22:22:45 UTC
Check,

http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera
http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/misc/rindex/media-fonts/dejavu

At least everything that's using Fontconfig in that list could use it. It's annoying to have ttf-bitstream-vera pulled in, when *I know* I've got dejavu which has more glyphs.

If you ACK, i'll proceed with this...
Comment 1 Ryan Hill (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2009-08-26 03:12:14 UTC
i'd rather just see everything move to dejavu. ;P

if we do this, it should be virtual/font-vera or something.  these fonts aren't only monospace.
Comment 2 Samuli Suominen (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2009-08-28 14:56:41 UTC
(In reply to comment #1)
> i'd rather just see everything move to dejavu. ;P

let's do that then. started with xwax today (see depend bugs).
Comment 3 Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn gentoo-dev 2009-08-30 19:53:11 UTC
This bug should possibly also depend on bug 261825
Comment 4 Dror Levin (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2010-03-26 14:29:16 UTC
I added virtual/ttf-fonts to the tree so all deps should be converted to it.
Comment 5 Mart Raudsepp gentoo-dev 2010-03-26 18:45:40 UTC
Not _all_ deps... E.g, you can't just change the dep on googleearth to it and call it a day. It will still be hardcoded default to bitstream-vera-ttf...
Comment 6 Ryan Hill (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2010-03-27 04:59:26 UTC
yes, you need to test every package depending on bitstream-vera to make sure it isn't hardwired in or breaks when other fonts are used.
Comment 7 Dror Levin (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2010-03-27 11:30:04 UTC
Of course, I'm not blindly switching deps. I simply started with packages that already specified || ( dejavu bitstream ) in {,R}DEPEND.
Comment 8 Mart Raudsepp gentoo-dev 2010-03-29 07:38:29 UTC
Sure, but one needs to then still make sure it'll be fine with freefonts-ttf too.
And hopefully also any possible extra fonts you will be adding to that virtual in the future...
Comment 9 Pacho Ramos gentoo-dev 2010-08-10 16:33:19 UTC
What does need to be handled first to solve this finally? I am a bit tired of having to add media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera-1.10-r3 to /etc/portage/profile/package.provided to  prevent this useless dep, then, please tell me how can I help with this

Thanks :-)
Comment 10 Mart Raudsepp gentoo-dev 2010-08-11 01:39:08 UTC
You should get maintainers of packages that pull in ttf-bitstream-vera explicitly to evaluate if the deps are generic per comments #5 and #6 and make it depend on virtual/ttf-fonts instead in such a case... and see what to do with those where that is not the case.
Comment 11 Michał Górny archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2017-06-05 18:30:40 UTC
Do we want to lastrite this or are we happy killing all the deps?
Comment 12 Pacho Ramos gentoo-dev 2017-06-06 08:50:20 UTC
This doesn't look to be required by anything in the tree anymore (just checked :/)
Comment 13 Bryan Hoyle 2017-06-21 18:33:22 UTC
I disagree that this is a bug. Dejavu hints differently than bitstream-vera and I personally can't stand Dejavu. Please reconsider removing the font.
Comment 14 Jaak Ristioja 2017-06-28 08:52:17 UTC
+1 for keeping the Bitstream Vera fonts in tree.
Comment 16 Arne Babenhauserheide 2017-06-28 21:46:02 UTC
When removing ttf-bitstream-vera, my emacs fails to start and complains 
"Font ‘Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-10’ is not defined". Emacsclient only shows when called with -nw, otherwise it shows the same complaint.

It is defined in ~/.Xresources as 
Emacs.font: Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-10

If you do this change, please warn *prominently* about any required user interaction. However I would prefer this not being *deleted from the tree* but just not used as default.

What is the reason for taking away the option to install ttf-bitstream-vera? (that’s what you’re doing if you delete it from the tree: You hinder users from installing a font they might want)
Comment 17 Michael Palimaka (kensington) gentoo-dev 2017-06-29 13:06:52 UTC
Do we really need to remove this? As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with the package if someone still wants to use it. It's also widely packaged across other distros: https://repology.org/metapackage/fonts:bitstream-vera/versions
Comment 18 Marcel Wunderlich 2017-07-01 19:51:40 UTC
Removal of ttf-bitstream-vera is wrong, as the Dejavu font renders quite differently, e.g. the diacrits of the Umlaute äöü are at least a pixel higher (1920x1200 screen, urxvt, 7.8 size) when using the Dejavu font instead of the ttf-bitstream-vera.

As already pointed out, removing a package from the tree does not solve the "packagers use wrong dependencies" problem.

Last but not least the links in the original post 404, so there should be at least some evidence that this package still causes trouble.
Comment 19 Michał Górny archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2017-07-01 21:22:42 UTC
It's always nice when people focus on trying to prove someone incompetent instead of making a good case to keep stuff.
Comment 20 Arne Babenhauserheide 2017-07-01 23:03:02 UTC
Are you serious?

Removing ttf-bitstream-vera broke my Emacs. It took me quite some time to find the user-setting I had to change (not even in Emacs but in .Xresources).

This is the first reason to keep it: Do not break working systems. What if someone wrote a book which uses BitstreamVera? Do you want him/her to be forced to install BitstreamVera outside the package manager just to turn the book into a PDF with the original layout?

The second reason: Bitstream Vera actually looks good. As several people in this thread attest. It has value in itself.
Comment 21 Michael Palimaka (kensington) gentoo-dev 2017-07-02 03:39:35 UTC
(In reply to Marcel Wunderlich from comment #18)
> Last but not least the links in the original post 404, so there should be at
> least some evidence that this package still causes trouble.

The links in comment #0 are about finding revdeps of those packages, they don't indicate any problem with it.

It looks like this bug was originally about getting bitstream-vera to not be pulled into the deptree unnecessarily, which is solved.

I don't think "no revdeps" is a good reason to remove a font (especially when multiple people have commented that they still use it), so unless some justification is given why this package is broken I'm going to unmask it.
Comment 22 Pacho Ramos gentoo-dev 2017-07-03 08:18:54 UTC
If you are getting emacs failing due to bitstream vera font missing it's a bug, either in our emacs package or in a local configuration still needing the font. ttf-bitstream-vera shouldn't be needed at all, it was superseeded by dejavu more than ten years
Comment 23 Pacho Ramos gentoo-dev 2017-07-03 08:21:16 UTC
The original problem was long time ago when packages were still pulling ttf-bitstream-vera and that was colliding with dejavu as, for some reason, it was used preferentially over dejavu and breaking, for example, the old gnome-weather applet causing the "degree" symbol to be wrongly shown as ttf-bitstream-vera never included the needed stuff (as it's completely dead for years... it was maintained from Gnome upstream that migrated to dejavu and cantarell many years ago)
Comment 24 Jaak Ristioja 2017-07-03 10:17:39 UTC
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #22)
> If you are getting emacs failing due to bitstream vera font missing it's a
> bug, either in our emacs package or in a local configuration still needing
> the font. ttf-bitstream-vera shouldn't be needed at all, it was superseeded
> by dejavu more than ten years

So you're saying that Dejavu is a superset of Bitstream Vera? As pointed out in comment #13, it is not a strict superset, but also provides different hinting. Hence it is a different font. Although someone thought DejaVu better fits the needs and/or preferences of some packages/users, one size does not fit all. Not everyone is in favor DejaVu.

(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #23)
> The original problem was long time ago when packages were still pulling
> ttf-bitstream-vera and that was colliding with dejavu as, for some reason,
> it was used preferentially over dejavu and breaking, for example, the old
> gnome-weather applet causing the "degree" symbol to be wrongly shown as
> ttf-bitstream-vera never included the needed stuff (as it's completely dead
> for years... it was maintained from Gnome upstream that migrated to dejavu
> and cantarell many years ago)

I don't use Gnome and as far as I'm concerned they can even switch to Comic Sans. If having Bitstream Vera installed conflicts with DejaVu for some packages, those packages need to be fixed instead.

Users should have the freedom to choose. Why make it more difficult for users to exercise this freedom? Why not have some free fonts in the tree even if no other package depends on them? Is maintaining this ebuild too time-consuming?
Comment 25 Michael Palimaka (kensington) gentoo-dev 2017-07-03 12:31:09 UTC
Since nothing pulls media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera any more, the only people who will have that package are those that explicitly emerge it. So, I don't think we have to worry about conflicts any more than any other font.

Added myself as maintainer and unmasked.
Comment 26 Arne Babenhauserheide 2017-07-03 20:20:30 UTC
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #22)
> If you are getting emacs failing due to bitstream vera font missing it's a
> bug, either in our emacs package or in a local configuration still needing
> the font. ttf-bitstream-vera shouldn't be needed at all, it was superseeded
> by dejavu more than ten years

It is not a bug: I explicitely installed bitstream vera back then because it looked good. Emacs failed to start when I decided to try de-installing bitstream vera because it was masked. Portage needs to respect user decisions, because there are requirements which are set outside the tree: the packages people install explicitely. Portage does not know why these are needed — that’s why it should not interfere, except when they cause unavoidable problems (which is no longer the case now).

(In reply to Michael Palimaka (kensington) from comment #25)
> Since nothing pulls media-fonts/ttf-bitstream-vera any more, the only people
> who will have that package are those that explicitly emerge it. So, I don't
> think we have to worry about conflicts any more than any other font.
> 
> Added myself as maintainer and unmasked.

Thank you!