Standing on my soap box, I am going to make a bold move: Gnome support needs to be completely removed from Gentoo. Let me refer to the following writeup: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7475828.html#7475828 and, still relevant (also referred in the above forum post): http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ The critical issues with GNOME are stacking up higher than ever before. The GNOME team does not support free (as in libre) user experiences. Just look at the comments from GNOME developers. GNOME's approach is going against the many libre philosophies of the Linux community. This cannot be ignored. So my request is, please move all GNOME/GTK3 related crapware straight to /dev/null. The benefit for Gentoo is that the developers won't even have to deal with the insane amount of maintenance and breakage. So they gain that time and can deal with other issues. I don't see how this will not improve the distribution as a whole. Little anekdote: some years ago ArchLinux and their early move to systemd broke my systems. I took that as an early warning sign and left the distribution, choosing Gentoo instead. Today it seems that it is practically impossible to have a desktop system that is almost gnome free. In my case, I'm using xmonad with nothing more than the gnome2 toolbar and even this is becoming increasingly problematic. GNOME3 is a bug.
Note: I chose "GNOME" and not "GNOME3" because, as I see it, if this catches on then the scope the bug is something that should be discussed. Some would probably argue to remove only GNOME3, others might argue that GNOME2 is unsupported by upstream making the removal of GNOME2 inevitable. And of course there will be people who hate this bug report so much that they will want to burn it, and myself, to the ground. :)
the joke is old :p
I'm glad I humoured you, Samuli. :) But, that being said, it isn't a joke... It's an honest request for an inevitable outcome. Or, at the very least, have it open for some honest debate. Cheers
Let me just post one quote from the second link in this bug report's first message. From Allan Day, a "user experience designer" who works with RedHat and is in the GNOME team: -- "Facilitating the unrestricted use of extensions and themes by end users seems contrary to the central tenets of the GNOME 3 design. We’ve fought long and hard to give GNOME 3 a consistent visual appearance, to make it synonymous with a single user experience and to ensure that that experience is of a consistently high quality. A general purpose extensions and themes distribution system seems to threaten much of that. I’m particularly surprised by the inclusion of themes. It seems bizarre that we specifically designed the GNOME 3 control center not to include theme installation/selection and then to reintroduce that very same functionality via extensions. So, I would very much like to hear about how this web site will relate to our core design goals." -- How are people not appalled by this?
I personally agree it should be removed. To me they have the attitude, that they are going to run and controll how linux developers are going to work. I always thought pulse audio as a dependency was over the top. PA is a awesome program if you need it, can also be very buggy and problomatic. I have wasted many hours of my life fixing sound issues because of pa, for me or for others. Truth is, very few people need the options that pa brings to the table. And for many, pa just works and have no problems. Now you throw systemd into the mix. I can just imagine all the future countless hours that will go into this, How many hours has been spent already, and how close are we to a viable compromised fix? Maybe it is time for a new approach. Maybe it is time for gnome to have it's own kernel and become it's own distro. Maybe gentoo can somehow help them in that direction, may be time consuming, but look at all the future hours gentoo will spend on current situation. How many hours have other distro's spent to come up with a solution? And gnomes attitude is, you're going to follow us and do what WE say! This just totally goes against all the reasons why I use linux in the first place. Maybe it is time to shake hands, agree to disagree. I would like to see some central place we can go to be updated on current status of the situation. or a link to such a place if already exist.
(In reply to genfool from comment #5) > And gnomes attitude is, you're going to follow us and do what WE say! > This just totally goes against all the reasons why I use linux in the first > place. Remember, you still have the choice to use KDE or XFCE or LXDE or MATE or some WM... Personally, i've been using GNOME for about 10 years now...I switched to KDE on the heels of GNOME3 going stable and I must say that I could not be happier. It's got much saner defaults, much simpler to configure, less breakage and GTK apps seem to fit extremely well into KDE (especially if you use the qtcurve theme or oxygen-gtk (IMO, Oxygen has so many colourschemes that most people probably stick with it)).
I have been using kde since I first installed linux, Not really the point. Why will gnome 3.8 mess up my kde consolekit? Why do they not care and suggest their way is the only way? I just see gnome as a problem that needs to go away. They are simply to aggressive and need to be taught a lesson. They think they own and run linux .... as a kde user, I do not think so.
(In reply to Marckus Knight from comment #3) > I'm glad I humoured you, Samuli. :) > > But, that being said, it isn't a joke... It's an honest request for an > inevitable outcome. Or, at the very least, have it open for some honest > debate. > > Cheers yes, I suspected it might not be a joke. but seriously speaking, Gentoo is a meta-distribution, the meta- implies Portage is just a tree and you get to pick how you build your own distribution, as each Gentoo installation is different. so, you don't have to install GNOME, you can completely ignore it's existance in Portage and move along with eg. Xfce, ConsoleKit, openrc, udev, and so forth. therefore there is no need to remove the option from users that actually want GNOME (and it's deps, which include systemd), just let them pick their own packages from the meta- and let them live in peaceful existance with rest of us. ConsoleKit+udev+and everything required for that stack is not going anywhere, and they are maintained, and Xfce will keep working with them. just to name one example. anyways, pointless bug, seriously.
