The Gnome 3.2 Upgrade Guide at <http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/gnome/howtos/gnome-3.2-upgrade.xml> has a lot of stuff in it, but as far as I can tell it omits the two most important pieces of information: 1. How to upgrade to Gnome 3.2 (e.g., I assume you have to "keyword" gnome-base/gnome, and I don't know what else...) 2. How to *avoid* upgrading once Gnome 3 is marked stable (see item 9 at <http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6883080.html>) Reproducible: Always
It already told you how to upgrade, and also explains available metas. About preventing update, we won't document it since Gnome2 will go away soon after Gnome3 stabilization
Please quote me where in the guide it tells you that: 1. gnome-3.* is (or even "may still be", if you don't want such strongly "dated" language in the guide) marked unstable; 2. you have to keyword a bunch of stuff to install Gnome 3 on a stable system (or, more likely, just don't even think of trying that); and 3. you (apparently) have to use "-gtk3" and "-introspection" and mask a bunch of packages (a la the forum post I link to above) to avoid a shitstorm of dependency conflicts if you're updating but trying to maintain a stable system (on gnome profile, at least). I happened to stumble across this crap at the same time I was trying to upgrade libpng (another complete clusterfuck -- you just never know what you're gonna get into when you emerge --sync). It took me hours to figure out how to get out of this dependency hell. Even an oblique mention of any of it would be appreciated in the guide. As for Gnome 2 going away "soon after" Gnome 3 is stabilized, that isn't going to help people who are trying to update their stable systems in the meantime...
Re: #3: ... and _not_ install anything Gnome 3 related.
(In reply to comment #2) Mixtures of packages with different stabilization levels on one system (e.g. gnome3 from "~amd64" and everything else from "amd64") are not tested by Gentoo developers, and we do not want give users the impression that such mixtures might be encouraged or properly supported. After gnome3.something is marked stable, gnome2 will go away (probably it will be moved from portage to a "gnome-sunset" overlay of some sort, similarly to what happened to kde3). The details of how this will happen are not clear yet, and we don't want to update the guide until there is a definite plan.
Believe me, trying to keep all my Gnome stuff stable is exactly what I was trying to do. (As I implied above, I don't know how much of my trials were caused by the particular combination of upgrades I was presented with at once, but I figured at least some of the problems were related to Gnome 3, since a bunch of "*-3.*" Gnome-related packages seemed to want to be merged against my wishes.) FYI, I'm still seeing these packages wanting to be installed unless I mask the Gnome 3 stuff as per the forum post: [ebuild U ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-3.0.0 [2.91.7] USE="branding" 18,021 kB [ebuild N ] gnome-base/gsettings-desktop-schemas-3.0.1 134 kB [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-themes-standard-3.0.2 1,178 kB Am I correct in assuming that these should not be installed on a Gnome 2 system? Should I file bugs on them? I still don't understand what's wrong with just informing readers of the guide that Gnome 3 is still in the unstable branch. Just that one simple statement. What's the problem with that? The "eselect" news item doesn't mention it; the upgrade guide doesn't mention it. Why not?
(In reply to comment #1) > It already told you how to upgrade, and also explains available metas. About > preventing update, we won't document it since Gnome2 will go away soon after > Gnome3 stabilization This is very unfortunate (sorry for popping up this discussion again). I tried Gnome 3.2 in the fallback mode, but I was deeply disappointed. GDM 2 looks better, the Gnome 3 fallback just doesn't look and feel like I'm used to it. So, please, do not remove Gnome2 from Portage. However, I have also upgraded to a newer version, such as eog, evince and gnome-power-manager. These applications are quite fine.
(In reply to comment #2) > Please quote me where in the guide it tells you that: > > 1. gnome-3.* is (or even "may still be", if you don't want such strongly > "dated" language in the guide) marked unstable; It's still in testing :-/ > 2. you have to keyword a bunch of stuff to install Gnome 3 on a stable system > (or, more likely, just don't even think of trying that); and > 3. you (apparently) have to use "-gtk3" and "-introspection" and mask a bunch > of packages (a la the forum post I link to above) to avoid a shitstorm of > dependency conflicts if you're updating but trying to maintain a stable system > (on gnome profile, at least). > I have a stable system with Gnome2 even having "gtk3" and "introspection" enabled, you should be able to have a similar setup. Also take care you look to want to have a "stable" system even running "testing"... and it doesn't look too recommendable to me if you don't want any problem :-| > I happened to stumble across this crap at the same time I was trying to upgrade > libpng (another complete clusterfuck -- you just never know what you're gonna > get into when you emerge --sync). It took me hours to figure out how to get out > of this dependency hell. Even an oblique mention of any of it would be > appreciated in the guide. > > As for Gnome 2 going away "soon after" Gnome 3 is stabilized, that isn't going > to help people who are trying to update their stable systems in the meantime... I don't understand this, gnome3 hasn't even marked stable, I cannot predict what problems could appear in the future when it goes to stable, but we will try to handle most of them gracefully if possible :) (In reply to comment #5) > Believe me, trying to keep all my Gnome stuff stable is exactly what I was > trying to do. (As I implied above, I don't know how much of my trials were > caused by the particular combination of upgrades I was presented with at once, > but I figured at least some of the problems were related to Gnome 3, since a > bunch of "*-3.*" Gnome-related packages seemed to want to be merged against my > wishes.) > > FYI, I'm still seeing these packages wanting to be installed unless I mask the > Gnome 3 stuff as per the forum post: > > [ebuild U ] x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-3.0.0 [2.91.7] USE="branding" > 18,021 kB > [ebuild N ] gnome-base/gsettings-desktop-schemas-3.0.1 134 kB > [ebuild N ] x11-themes/gnome-themes-standard-3.0.2 1,178 kB > > Am I correct in assuming that these should not be installed on a Gnome 2 > system? Should I file bugs on them? No, they work fine on Gnome2 systems, that is the reason for marking them stable, and you have to let them be installed to get, for example, proper theming for gtk3 apps, better icons even on Gnome2 and updated and fixed schemas. Please let your system install them. > > I still don't understand what's wrong with just informing readers of the guide > that Gnome 3 is still in the unstable branch. Just that one simple statement. > What's the problem with that? The "eselect" news item doesn't mention it; the > upgrade guide doesn't mention it. Why not? (In reply to comment #6) > (In reply to comment #1) > > It already told you how to upgrade, and also explains available metas. About > > preventing update, we won't document it since Gnome2 will go away soon after > > Gnome3 stabilization > > This is very unfortunate (sorry for popping up this discussion again). I tried > Gnome 3.2 in the fallback mode, but I was deeply disappointed. GDM 2 looks > better, the Gnome 3 fallback just doesn't look and feel like I'm used to it. > So, please, do not remove Gnome2 from Portage. > > However, I have also upgraded to a newer version, such as eog, evince and > gnome-power-manager. These applications are quite fine. Maintaining Gnome2 much more time will be really difficult since upstream doesn't fix anything for it and most distributions are already stopping their support for it.
OK, I guess I didn't say the right "magic word"... I don't understand what's wrong with just informing readers of the guide that Gnome 3 is still in the *testing* branch. Just that one simple statement. The "eselect" news item doesn't mention it; the upgrade guide doesn't mention it. Why not?
(In reply to comment #8) > OK, I guess I didn't say the right "magic word"... > > I don't understand what's wrong with just informing readers of the guide that > Gnome 3 is still in the *testing* branch. Just that one simple statement. The > "eselect" news item doesn't mention it; the upgrade guide doesn't mention it. > Why not? I still don't understand the problem: people running "stable" will simply not get gnome3 updates on their systems (apart of that mentioned exceptions, that don't need upgrade guide at all) -> people wanting to use that upgrade guide are there because their are running a "testing" systems of they have manually keyworded it
I think what is being tried to be said here, is that the news item pointing at the upgrade guide is shown to everyone having gnome (e.g gnome-session) installed, as the news item metadata doesn't support restricting it to only ~arch users right now, and then neither the news item nor the upgrade guide tells that it's just for ~arch, at least for now.
