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Bug 170815 - mozilla-firefox-2.0.0.2/gaim-2.0.0_beta6 crashes randomly
Summary: mozilla-firefox-2.0.0.2/gaim-2.0.0_beta6 crashes randomly
Status: RESOLVED INVALID
Alias: None
Product: Gentoo Linux
Classification: Unclassified
Component: New packages (show other bugs)
Hardware: AMD64 Linux
: High normal (vote)
Assignee: Mozilla Gentoo Team
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks: 187736
  Show dependency tree
 
Reported: 2007-03-14 03:22 UTC by Nathan Sullivan
Modified: 2008-02-16 19:03 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


Attachments

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Description Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-14 03:22:23 UTC
crashes randomly, similar bugtrace for each crash. no pattern to which site/s are causing the crash each time. firefox might last maybe 10 minutes at a time without crashing nowadays...

Reproducible: Always

Actual Results:  
http://www.nightsys.net/firefox-2.0.0.2-crash

Expected Results:  
not to crash :)
Comment 1 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-14 08:13:25 UTC
fyi, im in the process of building glibc-2.5-r1 will rebuild gcc/firefox/nss/nspr under that and see if it makes any difference, considering the issue looks related to not being able to find stdlib.h
Comment 2 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-15 04:48:21 UTC
looks ok now from here after rebuilding glibc, gcc, nss/nspr and firefox...will keep an eye on it
Comment 3 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-15 05:49:45 UTC
ok that was short lived....same crash, ive also cleared out my ~/.mozilla which was unlikely to be the cause though.

latest crash output:

http://www.nightsys.net/firefox-2.0.0.2-crash2
Comment 4 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-15 05:55:09 UTC
ok this looks more widespread than just firefox, gaim-2.0.0_beta6 just had the same crash

http://www.nightsys.net/gaim-2.0.0_beta6-crash

CC'ed net-im herd...
Comment 5 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-16 00:08:36 UTC
forgot to add this, oops :)

Portage 2.1.2.2 (default-linux/amd64/2006.1/desktop, gcc-4.1.2, glibc-2.5-r1, 2.6.20-ck1 x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: 2.6.20-ck1 x86_64 AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 148
Gentoo Base System release 1.12.9
Timestamp of tree: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:50:01 +0000
distcc 2.18.3 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu (protocols 1 and 2) (default port 3632) [disabled]
ccache version 2.4 [enabled]
dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7, 2.0.31-r4
dev-lang/python:     2.3.6, 2.4.4
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r5
dev-util/ccache:     2.4-r6
sys-apps/sandbox:    1.2.18.1
sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61
sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10
sys-devel/binutils:  2.17
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.3.15-r1
sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.23b
virtual/os-headers:  2.6.20-r1
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64"
AUTOCLEAN="yes"                 
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"    
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -g" 
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"     
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/share/config"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/gconf /etc/java-config/vms/ /etc/php/apache1-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -g"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="autoconfig ccache distlocks fixpackages metadata-transfer nostrip sandbox sfperms strict"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
MAKEOPTS="-j5"                  
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"  
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --filter=H_**/files/digest-*"      
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"       
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"          
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/xeffects /usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/php-experimental /usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/enlightenment /usr/local/portage-overlays/testing /usr/local/portage-overlays/gentoo-webapps-overlay/experimental /usr/local/portage-overlays/rezlooks-emul /usr/local/portage-overlays/gentoo-voip-overlay /usr/local/portage-overlays/kerio-overlay"
SYNC="rsync://172.17.0.2/gentoo-portage"
USE="X acpi aim alsa amd64 apache2 audiofile avahi avi bash-completion berkdb big-tables bitmap-fonts bzip2 cairo canvas cdr cli cpdflib cracklib crypt cups curl dba dbus debug divx4linux dlloader dri dvd dvdr emboss encode ethereal exif extraengine fam ffmpeg firefox flac fortran gd gdbm gif gimpprint glut gmp gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 hal iconv icq idn imap innodb ipv6 isdnlog jabber java jpeg kerberos lcms ldap libcaca libg++ logrotate mad mhash midi mikmod mng mono mozsvg mp3 mpeg mppe-mppc mysql mysqli ncurses nls nptl nptlonly nsplugin nvidia ogg opengl pam pcntl pcre pdf pear perl php png posix ppds pppd pulseaudio python quicktime readline reflection ruby samba sdl session slang snmp soap sockets spell spl sqlite ssl svg tcpd tiff truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts unicode userlocales utf8 vorbis wddx wma xine xinerama xml xml2 xmlrpc xorg xosd xprint xsl xv xvid yahoo zlib" ALSA_CARDS="emu10k1" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"    
Unset:  CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LDFLAGS, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS
Comment 6 Olivier Crete (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2007-03-16 03:24:15 UTC
what's your kernel? ck-sources? Try gentoo sources or vanilla sources... it seems to crash inside the write system call. That means in kernel space. Check for information in your dmesg.
Comment 7 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-16 23:34:05 UTC
yep ck-sources, thanks will give that a try.
Comment 8 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-20 03:10:51 UTC
nothing out of the ordinary in dmesg, building a gentoo-sources kernel now to test, will give feedback shortly
Comment 9 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-20 04:25:23 UTC
http://www.nightsys.net/firefox-2.0.0.2-crash-gentoosources2.6.20

same results using gentoo-sources-2.6.20-r3... built linux-headers-2.6.20-r2, then glibc/binutils/gcc, then a new 2.6.20-r3 kernel. crash as above, worth trying to rebuild firefox as well with the new toolchain after linux-headers being upgraded?

FYI:

Portage 2.1.2.2 (default-linux/amd64/2006.1/desktop, gcc-4.1.2, glibc-2.5-r1, 2.6.20-gentoo-r3 x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: 2.6.20-gentoo-r3 x86_64 AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 148
Gentoo Base System release 1.12.9
Timestamp of tree: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 16:50:01 +0000
distcc 2.18.3 x86_64-pc-linux-gnu (protocols 1 and 2) (default port 3632) [disabled]
ccache version 2.4 [enabled]    
dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7, 2.0.31-r5
dev-lang/python:     2.3.6, 2.4.4
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r5   
dev-util/ccache:     2.4-r6     
sys-apps/sandbox:    1.2.18.1   
sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61 
sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10
sys-devel/binutils:  2.17       
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.3.15-r1 
sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.23b    
virtual/os-headers:  2.6.20-r2  
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64"  
AUTOCLEAN="yes"                 
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"    
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -g" 
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"     
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/X11/xkb /usr/share/config"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/gconf /etc/java-config/vms/ /etc/php/apache1-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -march=k8 -pipe -g"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="autoconfig ccache distlocks fixpackages metadata-transfer nostrip sandbox sfperms strict"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"                  
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"  
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --filter=H_**/files/digest-*"      
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/xeffects /usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/php-experimental /usr/local/portage-overlays/layman/enlightenment /usr/local/portage-overlays/testing /usr/local/portage-overlays/gentoo-webapps-overlay/experimental /usr/local/portage-overlays/rezlooks-emul /usr/local/portage-overlays/gentoo-voip-overlay /usr/local/portage-overlays/kerio-overlay"
SYNC="rsync://172.17.0.2/gentoo-portage"
USE="X acpi aim alsa amd64 apache2 audiofile avahi avi bash-completion berkdb big-tables bitmap-fonts bzip2 cairo canvas cdr cli cpdflib cracklib crypt cups curl dba dbus debug divx4linux dlloader dri dvd dvdr emboss encode ethereal exif extraengine fam ffmpeg firefox flac fortran gd gdbm gif gimpprint glut gmp gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 hal iconv icq idn imap innodb ipv6 isdnlog jabber java jpeg kerberos lcms ldap libcaca libg++ logrotate mad mhash midi mikmod mng mono mozsvg mp3 mpeg mppe-mppc mysql mysqli ncurses nls nptl nptlonly nsplugin nvidia ogg opengl pam pcntl pcre pdf pear perl php png posix ppds pppd pulseaudio python quicktime readline reflection ruby samba sdl session slang snmp soap sockets spell spl sqlite ssl svg tcpd tiff truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts unicode userlocales utf8 vorbis wddx wma xine xinerama xml xml2 xmlrpc xorg xosd xprint xsl xv xvid yahoo zlib" ALSA_CARDS="emu10k1" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia"
Unset:  CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LDFLAGS, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS
Comment 10 Olivier Crete (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2007-03-20 11:42:17 UTC
you can try, but I really dont think it has anything to do with it. Btw, the crashing signal is a SIGSEGV ?
Comment 11 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-20 22:49:01 UTC
I cant actually tell if its a SIGSEGV, I would assume so... it doesnt give me that output from gdb unfortunately. Generally when I debug, I use ffox till it crashes, then attach to the process to gain output. As a test I thought I would attach to a new process and leave it attached until it crashes to see if I get the signal, but got this instead when I attached to a new process:

Reading symbols from /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libstoragecomps.so...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libstoragecomps.so
Reading symbols from /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libnecko2.so...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libnecko2.so
Reading symbols from /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libmork.so...done.
Loaded symbols for /usr/lib64/mozilla-firefox/components/libmork.so
0x00002b39f551a746 in *__GI___poll (fds=0xa1de30, nfds=7, timeout=-1) at ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/poll.c:87
87      ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/poll.c: No such file or directory.
        in ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/poll.c
(gdb) bt
#0  0x00002b39f551a746 in *__GI___poll (fds=0xa1de30, nfds=7, timeout=-1) at ../sysdeps/unix/sysv/linux/poll.c:87
#1  0x00002b39f4c8a33e in g_main_context_iterate (context=0x54f2b0, block=1, dispatch=1, self=<value optimized out>) at gmain.c:2979
#2  0x00002b39f4c8a7d6 in IA__g_main_loop_run (loop=0xd59be0) at gmain.c:2881
#3  0x00002b39f3f04432 in IA__gtk_main () at gtkmain.c:1154
#4  0x00002aaaaad4e5d9 in nsAppShell::Run (this=0x66d760) at nsAppShell.cpp:139
#5  0x00002aaaab456fa6 in nsAppStartup::Run (this=0x66d710) at nsAppStartup.cpp:151
#6  0x0000000000409098 in XRE_main (argc=<value optimized out>, argv=<value optimized out>, aAppData=<value optimized out>) at nsAppRunner.cpp:2695
#7  0x00002b39f5481374 in __libc_start_main (main=0x403e00 <main>, argc=1, ubp_av=0x7fffb78b2528, init=<value optimized out>, fini=<value optimized out>, rtld_fini=<value optimized out>, 
    stack_end=0x7fffb78b2518) at libc-start.c:238
#8  0x0000000000403d69 in _start ()
Current language:  auto; currently c
(gdb) 


This crashed my new ffox window straight away as well, not sure if this helps, or if its completely unrelated...?
Comment 12 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-22 23:21:05 UTC
feedback? anyone?
Comment 13 Nathan Sullivan 2007-03-22 23:22:20 UTC
fyi, ive been having trouble reproducing this since starting ffox from a shell. one thing i did notice though is I am wondering if the gdb output im providing is actually relating to a problem with the debugger and attaching to the process rather than whats actually killing ffox in the first place... because I can attach to a perfectly running process and get the same error which in turn then locks ffox.
Comment 14 Sumit Khanna 2007-11-14 19:50:47 UTC
I don't know if this is related. I've noticed that gaim 2.0.0_beta6 has been completely removed from portage. I've been using it since it was originally emerged and haven't run into any problems. However on each emerge update, it tried to downgrade back to gaim 1.5 which fails. Could we please get gaim 2.0.0_beta6 added back to the tree and just hard mask it? 

if /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC --mode=compile x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../..  -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DVERSION=\"1.5.0\" -I../../src -DORBIT2=1 -pthread -I/usr/include/libxml2 -I/usr/include/evolution-data-server-1.12 -I/usr/include/libbonobo-2.0 -I/usr/include/libgnome-2.0 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/orbit-2.0 -I/usr/include/bonobo-activation-2.0 -I/usr/include/gconf/2 -I/usr/include/gnome-vfs-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/gnome-vfs-2.0/include    -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/include/cairo -I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib64/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/include/libpng12     -O2 -march=nocona -Wall -g3 -MT gevolution.lo -MD -MP -MF ".deps/gevolution.Tpo" -c -o gevolution.lo gevolution.c; \
        then mv -f ".deps/gevolution.Tpo" ".deps/gevolution.Plo"; else rm -f ".deps/gevolution.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
gevolution.c:40:38: error: libebook/e-book-listener.h: No such file or directory
make[3]: *** [gevolution.lo] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/net-im/gaim-1.5.0/work/gaim-1.5.0/plugins/gevolution'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/net-im/gaim-1.5.0/work/gaim-1.5.0/plugins'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/var/tmp/portage/net-im/gaim-1.5.0/work/gaim-1.5.0'
make: *** [all] Error 2
 *
 * ERROR: net-im/gaim-1.5.0 failed.



and here is my emerge info:


raphael ~ # emerge --info
Portage 2.1.3.19 (default-linux/amd64/2006.1/desktop, gcc-4.2.2, glibc-2.7-r0, 2.6.23-gentoo x86_64)
=================================================================
System uname: 2.6.23-gentoo x86_64 Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz
Timestamp of tree: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:27:01 +0000
app-shells/bash:     3.2_p17-r1
dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7, 2.1.2-r1
dev-lang/python:     2.3.6-r2, 2.4.4-r4, 2.5.1-r3
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.10-r5
sys-apps/sandbox:    1.2.18.1-r2
sys-devel/autoconf:  2.13, 2.61-r1
sys-devel/automake:  1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10
sys-devel/binutils:  2.18-r1
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4
sys-devel/libtool:   1.5.24
virtual/os-headers:  2.6.23-r1
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=nocona"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/udev/rules.d"
CXXFLAGS="-O3 -march=nocona"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo"
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
MAKEOPTS="-j3"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --delete-after --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages --filter=H_**/files/digest-*"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="X a52 aac aalib acpi aim alsa amd64 audiofile berkdb bitmap-fonts browserplugin bzip2 cairo cdinstall cdparanoia cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dbus dri dts dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss emul-linux-x86 encode exif fam ffmpeg firefox flac fortran ftp gdbm gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 gtkhtml hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog java jpeg kde ldap lirc log4j mad matroska midi mikmod mono mp3 mpeg msn mudflap mysql ncurses nls nptl nptlonly nsplugin nvidia offensive ogg oggvorbis opengl openmp pam pcre pda pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt4 quicktime readline reflection rtc samba sdl seamonkey session spell spl ssl svg tcpd theora truetype truetype-fonts type1-fonts unicode usb vcd vorbis wmf xinerama xml xorg xscreensaver xv xvid yahoo zlib" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" ELIBC="glibc" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIRC_DEVICES="logitech" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia trident"
Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LDFLAGS, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS
Comment 15 Sumit Khanna 2007-11-14 22:51:02 UTC
disregard my last comment. I just realized pidgin replaced gaim :)
Comment 16 Olivier Crete (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-02-16 19:03:04 UTC
this bug is way too old and randoms crashes we can't do much about unless you find the source.