<zaheerm> seemant, Fluendo need to know who would be signing the contract
<seemant> zaheerm: in advance? first let the foundation agree to sign :)
<zaheerm> seemant, ok i'll send them the sample contratc :)
<seemant> that's best for now :)
<foser> Cardoe: are you still interested to be in cairo metadata ?
* geoman-campus has quit ("Client exiting")
<Cardoe_work> foser: considering I'm the cairo maintainer.....
<Cardoe_work> since twp and latexer handed it over to me ages ago
<Cardoe_work> and I have an ebuild for 1.0.4 with some other modular X fixes incorporated that I'm cooking up and planning on commiting.
<Cardoe_work> then yes
<Cardoe_work> so where in the world would you get the idea I wouldn't?
<Cardoe_work> seemant: ping
<foser> im updating it as we speak
<Cardoe_work> no you're not
<foser> its gnome herd
<Cardoe_work> No it's not
<seemant> Cardoe_work: I'm here, just speak
<Cardoe_work> I am the maintainer
<Cardoe_work> And I'm involved with upstream
<Cardoe_work> seemant: Deal with this.
<foser> yes we all love you for it.. stil it has been 2 weeks, so i just picked it up
<Cardoe_work> foser: I don't give a shit how long it has been.
<Cardoe_work> I am the maintainer
<Cardoe_work> I don't trample on your shit because I feel you take to long
<foser> you know how that sounds Cardoe .. sounds too much how you tend to describe me
<seemant> foser: if he's in metadata, please don't step on toes
<seemant> the two of you need to figure each other out
<zaheerm> this is a simple issue, no point arguing
<foser> seemant: gnome is in metadata.. all latest bumps are by gnome members
<seemant> that certainly muddies waters somewhat
<foser> anyway its a simple bump.. not like rocketscience
<seemant> foser: I propose you allow Doug a couple more days for his fixes/cookings to that bump
<seemant> it sounds like he has something in mind
<foser> i wonder what that is.. dropping the in-dev unsed glitz backend ? actually fixing the modular x deps to not include stuff it doesnt depend on ?
<foser> sorry.. but if he feels he needs to add things.. fine with me, but im comitting this now.. im done with it
<seemant> foser: Cardoe_work: sort your relationship out, and do it soon
<foser> i have no problems with Cardoe seemant and I think you know that
<seemant> foser: I won't lie: it looks like there is a bit of static even from you (could be reactionary, I don't know)
<Cardoe_work> seemant: cairo is not a GNOME app
I'm tired of all this crap from foser. I've been pinging seemant, and devrel about issues with him and no one has cared to resolve them for 1+ years. It needs to be addressed and NOW!
(As a previous active maintainer of cairo, I'm going to add my $0.02 here. If it's not appreciated, i'll skulk off somewhere else.)
It seems to me that "foser commits to packages that don't belong to him and belong to other users" might not really be the issue at hand here. Maybe it is and I am misinterpreting things here.
1) Doug: can you provide details on other packages that foser commited to that don't 'belong to him'? So far, this is one package (and even this one seems questionable, see point #2)
2) Looking in the cairo ChangeLog:
*cairo-1.0.2 (05 Oct 2005)
05 Oct 2005; Leonardo Boshell <firstname.lastname@example.org>
New version. Dropping unnecesary patches, and added a new patch to fix a
small but important bug in configure.in.
05 Sep 2005; Markus Rothe <email@example.com> cairo-0.3.0-r2.ebuild:
Stable on ppc64
*cairo-1.0.0-r2 (02 Sep 2005)
02 Sep 2005; Leonardo Boshell <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Added a couple of patches from upstream's CVS repository to fix some tests
on amd64 and fix a problem with remote displays that don't match the local
*cairo-1.0.0-r1 (31 Aug 2005)
31 Aug 2005; Leonardo Boshell <email@example.com>
Added patch from upstream CVS repository that fixes a segmentation fault
when -fomit-frame-pointer is in CFLAGS (bug #104265).
*cairo-1.0.0 (25 Aug 2005)
25 Aug 2005; Leonardo Boshell <firstname.lastname@example.org>
The GNOME herd sure seems ot have a 6 month history of doing bumps on this package. If 'people commiting to packages they don't own' is really the issue, was leonardop asked to stop commiting to cairo after the cairo-1.0.0 bump? after the 1.0.1 bump?
3) The gnome herd is listed in the very first item in the cairo metadata.xml. In general terms, this seems to coincide with GNOME folks doing bumsp to this etc.
The particulars of foser doing a bump when Doug has explicitly stated he has some changes he's working on, etc. does strike me as something foser shouldn't have done, but it seem when he did finally do that, folks were already heated, bothered, and generally not in the best of moods. It seems the real problem here is the personal stuff between foser and cardoe, and not any 'violation of commit rights' or anything to that extreme a measure.
(22:32:52) Cardoe: my issue is with the fact that I told foser not to commit it because I had tried 1.0.4 of cairo locally
(22:32:59) Cardoe: and it didn't fix many of the reported bugs
(22:33:02) Cardoe: and added new ones
(22:33:08) Cardoe: he said he didn't care I could fix it later
(22:33:11) Cardoe: he was commiting
(22:33:20) Cardoe: all he wanted to know is if I still wanted to be listed in metadata
(22:33:28) Cardoe: as far as gnome herd being in there.
(22:33:36) Cardoe: I was moving to my new apartment
(22:33:44) Cardoe: and I did not have my dev box setup with internet
(22:33:49) Cardoe: I asked leo to commit some stuff on my behalf
(22:33:56) Cardoe: and he added the gnome herd on his own accord
(22:34:07) Cardoe: and it was not "6 months of maintainership" by him
(22:34:14) Cardoe: if you count it was roughly 9 days
(22:34:21) Cardoe: and you can see all the bugs are assigned to me
(22:40:59) latexer has become idle.
(22:42:51) latexer is no longer idle.
(22:43:08) latexer: dude. don't tell me.
(22:43:12) latexer: comment on the bug.
As I stated, in this particular instance it seems that foser should have worked with you better to get any fixes you had ready and commited that way, I agree.
I still don't see any history of lots of packages foser is touching he shouldn't. Right now all I see is one personal difference resulting in lack of teamwork, and a package getting commited. Also, what new bugs are in 1.0.4 that we should be worried about?
Given that the gnome heard was listed in the metadata it is fine for them to bump versions. However foser should not have blatently disregarded Cardoe's requirest to leave it alone, or at least should have offered an explination of why the bump was needed immediatly.
Cardoe: You claimed this is a common issue, could you fill us in on when this has happened in the past?
foser: Is there a reason why the bump couldn't wait for Cardoe to commit what he was working on?
Let me point out a few things about the bug in question.
1. It was assigned correctly, until cardoe decided to assign it to himself and remove gnome from CC. So when i looked for open bugs, there were none.
2. The problem has no upstream fix, so there's no real fix to work with.
3. The fix in the bug has been around since october last year, if it were so important to Cardoe he could've revbumped 1.0.2 ages ago. I guess it wasn't all that important.
Let me also quote https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109480#c15
"I informed foser of the situation but he didn't care to fix it."
He informed nobody as the IRC log he posted himself here indicates, he only states something about 'modular X fixes'; things I fixed as well (check the diff between 1.0.2 & 1.0.4).
Afaics Cardoe's argument is made up of half-truths and misinformation, it would've been a 3 second fix to add a possible amd64 patch if he had bothered to mention it. If anything, he's grasping onto straws to have any credibility left by bringing in bug #109480, which afaic is something he reassigned away and as such he's the one to blame for that. He had no right to do so, nor was it so important to him to ever introduce the fix in the tree in the almost 5 months there has been a solution.
Now for why I revbumped, I was committing it when I asked the few people who were inactive in the ChangeLog if they still wanted to be in metadata. Latexer immediatly agreed that he could be removed, twp hasn't done anything on it since early 2005, so those were no-brainers. Then I asked Cardoe (who hasn't revbumped it since late 2005/any of the stable releases) if he still wanted to be in there and the result you can read in the IRC log in comment #1. Seeing leonardop had done all the recent (all stable!) cairo bumps for the gnome team, i saw no reason to hold it off any longer. The release is 2 weeks old, cairo is a main gnome/gtk lib and 1.0.4 contains important font handling crasher fixes. I had gone trough all usual steps (search bugzilla, check upstream, fix ebuild). I have done cairo and related libs bumps before, Cardoe had nothing constructive to add (no mention of bug #109480) so I just went for it.
With the information I had, I'm pretty sure I did the right thing. Any other dev would've probably not made such a big baseless fuzz about it and be happy that someone else took some work off of their plate.
In closing, I'd like to report Cardoe for knowningly holding back information, obstructing other devs in the process of improving the tree and in general dirty laundring about the other Gentoo gnome devs and me without solid argumentation in public channels time and time again. I feel that his negative presence has lead to a decrease in developer activity in the gnome team and as such I request that his role in the Gentoo project is re-evaluated, given that his behaviour is obviously harmful to the health of Gentoo project as a whole.
foser: thanks for clarifying things.
Cardoe, I hope you don't mind if I make a simple suggestion:
Be more open, be less territorial.
If someone commits something to a package I maintain and the situation is understandable (critical bug, or they are in the metadata in some respect, or they informed me before the commit, or they have done work on the package before) then I'm overly _pleased_ - less work for me to do, and that person might potentially be interested in taking over maintainership when I get bored of the package.
That is all :)
Let's all just spout off on a bug where we know nothing about the situation or any of the problems at hand.
The issue is foser is offensive and I refuse to work with him. I informed him of issues with the 1.0.4 release prior to his commiting it and he didn't care. And yes, I consider not compiling because it doesn't find the new path with modular X or the new modular X only glitz versions as "modular X fixes". I know foser did an excellent job at downplaying the language or the implied severity. Also he did great to explain "Gnome wasn't on the bugs so I didn't know". If you go to rev bump something you could at the very least type the package name into bugzilla and see all outstanding issues.
I refuse to work with foser because of his constant bashing of me and anyone not in the gnome herd. As put by a developer that wishes to be unnamed "foser seems to want to drive all the desktop devs off". Hopefully he'll change his mind and comment on this bug and provide some logs.
Maybe seemant would like to step up and support me here since I've been complaining to him for over a year about foser's treatment of me and other devs involved with the desktop project.
And I really couldn't care if anyone else worked on stuff. I even worked on cairo with leo... as is VERY obvious by the log files. Heck I've even worked on stuff with you dsd. I was hardly territorial. Ask anyone I work with on a regular basis.
on the previous complaints that Doug brought to me, it did seem (and that has not changed) that Doug and Foser have a personal thing going on. I actually did talk with foser at the time. To my recollection, foser agreed that he would like to work with Cardoe, provided Cardoe was willing to behave in a co-operative way.
In this case, I can not support one or the other, because it honestly seems to me to be a situation of personal issues. Such things happen, but people need to be able to deal with this. I've said in the past to both of them "deal with this" for exactly that reason.
well this is the usual problem with these kind of hearings, making everything into a personal issue. Afaic it is not, I cannot however speak for Cardoe.
If you look at the facts, Cardoe has no point at all. I don't know why this is taking so long, it's a clear cut case.
* gnome is in metadata and has been longer than Cardoe
* I committed on cairo before
* cardoe hasn't done any release since half a year ago, his only commits more recent is a typo fix and cleaning out old stuff (no fix added for #109480 at those points in time either)
* cardoe knowingly removed gnome from CC on a bug and then left it untouched for months now digging it up to justify his unreasonable behaviour
* cardoe didn't bring up the bug he obviously knew about when he was asked what kind of changes he had planned
* cairo 1.0.4 contains important crasher fixes and was 2 weeks out at the point I took the liberty to commit it
This joke has gone on long enough. I think Cardoe is ego-tripping and is just acting out of spite towards me and others in the gnome team, as such this can't be taken seriously at all. I'm done with it.
05:28 < steev-laptop> fox2mike: no, i don't list anything about gnome 2.14
anymore on the site, people kept pulling in dang's
overlay rather than unmasking what was in portage
05:28 < steev-laptop> paul555: best thing to do is read
05:29 < fox2mike> ah
05:29 < fox2mike> steev-laptop: okay
05:29 < paul555> thanks steev-laptop
05:29 < steev-laptop> kept getting "hey, im trying to emerge gentopia-gnome,
05:29 < steev-laptop> and i was like, wth is gentopia-gnome?
05:38 <@foser> useful all those resources wasted on something that isn't in the
05:43 -!- Turrican [email@example.com] has joined
05:47 < steev-laptop> foser: all those resources? what, all 3 of us in
gentopia, that were pointing to dang's overlay before it
was in the tree (and i might point out it is now) but
hey, it was unhelpful
05:47 < steev-laptop> foser: get overyourself
05:48 < steev-laptop> you bitch if someone asks the gnome herd to bump
something as its "mindless bumping" - yet 2 hours after
something was released, you were riding me to bump it
because compnerd hadn't gotten to it yet.
05:48 < steev-laptop> if your goal is to try to push people away from gentoo,
you are succeeding
This came about because I am tired of foser's condescending nature - or at least, that is how I am taking his comments - and as for the mindless bumping thing, I point to this entry from my logs previously.
11:06 <@foser> !herd gentopia
11:06 < jeeves> foser: (gentopia) cardoe, compnerd, genstef, steev
11:07 < genstef> works
11:09 < steev-laptop> what works
11:09 < steev-laptop> foser: need us for something?
11:10 <@foser> not really..
11:10 <@foser> but now you here.. when will the new galago be unleashed to the unsuspecting masses ?
11:11 < steev-laptop> never.
11:11 < steev-laptop> no idea actually, i don't use it
11:11 -!- slezi [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #gentoo-desktop
11:12 <@foser> so... ? it's gentopia isn't it .. like maintenance and stuff .. ?
11:13 < steev-laptop> ask compnerd
11:13 <@foser> i don't see him around
11:14 < steev-laptop> i don't step on anyone's toes unless they aren't in our herd ;)
11:14 < steev-laptop> got a bug ?
11:14 <@foser> but you are the herd.. so it wouldnt matter
11:14 <@foser> anyway, you cant rely for maintenance on single ppl really .. thats why we got herds
11:14 < steev-laptop> no, we are a team, packages belong to a herd, or some such silly PC crap some random devs keep spewing
11:14 <@foser> nah.. just an announcement
11:14 < steev-laptop> oh
11:15 < steev-laptop> he doesn't announce it to gnome-announce ?
11:15 <@foser> spyderous: btw did you only post the desktop lead post to -desktop ? i don't read that...
11:16 <@foser> steev-laptop: not yet anyway
11:16 <@spyderous> foser: no, i posted it to -dev as well.
11:16 < steev-laptop> foser: url?
11:16 <@dang> There's a -desktop?
11:16 <@dang> That's news to me...
11:16 < steev-laptop> yes - there is also a -desktop-research
11:16 <@foser> spyderous: oh right... there it is.. i guess i missed it
11:16 <@dang> <sigh> More mailing lists to join...
11:17 < steev-laptop> -research hasn't had a post since i joined it
11:17 <@foser> steev-laptop: dunno galago.org or something ..
This request for the bump was also 2 hours after the release, and as far as I know, even if you are in the same herd, it is still common decency to allow the person who is listed as maintainer a chance to update/upgrade first.
I guess this is an ignored issue still.... It's only been an issue for over a year so not a problem.
Closing as WONTFIX for devrel.
(In reply to comment #13)
> I guess this is an ignored issue still.... It's only been an issue for over a
> year so not a problem.
> Closing as WONTFIX for devrel.
Based on your poor attitude, this isn't a resolved issue. Simply put, you(Cardoe) need to find a way to work with other developers who don't share the same goals as you. There is absolutly no reason why gnome and gentopia can't live peacefully together.
Added another behavioral gem from the reporters side I just stumbled across. Note that the bug had been unanswered for 2 weeks and that the derogatory claims made '40 bugs' are not backed up by any evidence, not that it would justify the tone of the comment.
I don't understand your math. Chris opened bug a bug on 5/9 and I was gone and Steve was looking after my bugs. He closed it 5/17 saying he didn't see the issue. By some basic math that's 8 days. 8 days is 1 week and 1 day.
In this bug Steve commented on 5/5 and then I closed it 5/30. That's 25 days which happens to be 3 weeks and 4 days.
No where in there is there "2 weeks".
I haven't talked to you or your people for several weeks and I hope to keep it that way. Keep to yourself and stay away from me.
Nah, I just took the 3 weeks it took for you to respond and toned it down a little to be on the safe side (why would you feel the need to respond to a closed bug that has no apparent basis anyway if you really had someone else handle your bugs ? I see it just as steev doing 'gentopia' duty), because i expected this kind of 'i got no point, so i make one up' response. By the way, my crooked math holds no candle to your 'like 40 bugs' out of thin air magic.
Anyway, you completely missed the point and it wasn't about the content of your comment in the bug (which might or might not be correct), but the tone. So far any comment you made here only has made it more clear what the real problem is.
foser, I'll let you bait me into this crap one last time to just tell you. Crawl back into the troll hole you came from. Rather then waste time with trying to fan the flames here and keep this going.. Go do some good for Gentoo rather then drive devs away from the project (read: Steve's comments), and do some development work...
As a side note, wasn't there a thing on the mailing list saying that mostly inactive developers should just retire rather then hang on and stay in inactivity. Just causing issues because nothing gets done and packages/projects depend on them when instead we could have fresh motivated blood.
I'm done with this and with foser.