i use a kde 5 desktop and the "-*" useflag and set -minimal systemwide so i dont need the xorg twm stuff! but "emerge -avDNu world" always produces this and polluting a package.use file with just another "per-package-use" entry makes not really sense here... [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xsm-1.0.4::gentoo USE="-rsh" 167 KiB [ebuild N ] x11-wm/twm-1.0.10::gentoo 281 KiB [ebuild R ] x11-apps/xinit-1.4.0-r1::gentoo USE="-minimal*" 0 KiB [ebuild N ] x11-apps/xclock-1.0.7::gentoo 161 KiB [ebuild N ] x11-terms/xterm-337::gentoo USE="truetype unicode xinerama -Xaw3d -openpty -toolbar" 1.306 KiB so it would be really wise to permanently rename the "minimal" useflag in x11-apps/xinit to something like "twm" for people who still want to pull in that stuff! thanks for considering!
i forgot to mention that in xinit by default the minimal useflag is activated. that collides with a systemwide -minimal and -* useflag set...
!minimal? ( x11-apps/xclock x11-apps/xsm x11-terms/xterm x11-wm/twm ) It depends on three other packages that have nothing to do with twm, so why would it help to rename it to USE=twm particularly?
it pulls in unnecessarily for modern desktops twm and its bundled tools with it, because of xinit by default enabled minimal useflag... so i have to disable the "minimal" useflag systemwide or per package base for xinit only, but the minimal useflag stands usually for a minimal set of features/files/etc. and NOT mandatorily pulling in other stuff (in this case twm and sorts). my solution elimininates the necessity to globaly or per package.use file set a "-minimal" useflag to counter the default enabled "minimal" useflag. users should choose by themselfs (one of gentoos core philosophy) a more easy way to pull in twm if they need REALLY need this basic wm... which i bet most dont simple solution create the "twm" useflag for the xinit package... fits all thinkable situations... and keeps the package.use file and the make.conf less complex with settings... i consider this a typical "default useflag bogus" coming up if you use a modern kde based system in conjunction with a globaly enabled "-*" useflag... be prepared i will report some more shortly for other packages... by the way: using "-*" (from time to time at least) is a nice diagnostic way to discover those "mistakes";-)
please let me explain: my philosophy is generaly to keep the package.use file (and also my systemwide use-flags in make.conf) as small as possible with per-package based "workaround" entrys here, because i consider every entry needed there as superfluous (at least for a standard minimalistic and modular gentoo kde 5 based system!) and usually work only with systemwide enabled (or if nessesary disabled) useflags via my make.conf! so that standard kde 5 only users wouldnt have to set this in their package.use file this entry to prevent pulling the unnesserary twm and other tools x11-apps/xinit -minimal i hope i could prove comprehensive insights in my thought here ;-)
I don't think USE=-* is something we really support. That said, I think it makes sense to move the USE flag to some other name (such as twm), or kill it completely. I think the rationale there is that xinit scripts itself, as installed by the xinit package, will try to launch twm together with xclock and xterm opened at startup in face of no other session being selected. That's not something that people really want, as evidenced by the default enabled USE=minimal.
i then vote for completly mask or (much better) the "minimal" useflag then from x11-apps/xinit. i also vote for adding x11-terms/xterm, x11-apps/xsm and x11-apps/xclock in x11-wm/twm as dependencies , maybe even with their own by default disabled use-flags (like "xterm", "xclock" and "xsm") then in the x11-wm/twm ebuild. also nice would be a by default disabled "twm" useflag added into the x11-base/xorg-x11 meta package so people who still want (xorgs most basic own) twm windowmanager and its extra stuff they simply have to put twm in their portage world file or add a systemwide twm useflag in their make.conf. this would also fix the problem for people who are using "-*" use-flag and have not set the "minimal use-flag in anyway. does this sound like an acceptable solution for everyone?
(In reply to mael from comment #6) > i then vote for completly mask or (much better) the "minimal" useflag then > from x11-apps/xinit. Then xinit would fail to run by default. The current mechanism is that if you don't want the additional packages pulled in, you set USE=minimal and then sort out the local configuration so it doesn't fail.
but this is an ugly solution leaving minimal by default enabled... also it requires the normal unnessesary "x11-apps/xinit -minimal" entry in package.use also this an ugly solution for people who wants to use a systemwide enabled "minimal" useflag a systemwide "-minimal" enry in their make.conf would be impossible which further displays in detail that the useflag should be removed or renamed to twm i simply think that !minimal? ( x11-apps/xclock x11-apps/xsm x11-terms/xterm x11-wm/twm ) is a misuse of the "minimal" useflag in xinit. as i said normaly you activate it yourself. it really shouldnt be enabled by default there because twm is not needed by most who use sddm with kde 5 or other login managers and wms... only as backup. and for small environments every package less needed is the most wanted solution. if they need twm they still can it activate...
(In reply to Jeroen Roovers from comment #7) > (In reply to mael from comment #6) > > i then vote for completly mask or (much better) the "minimal" useflag then > > from x11-apps/xinit. > > Then xinit would fail to run by default. The current mechanism is that if > you don't want the additional packages pulled in, you set USE=minimal and > then sort out the local configuration so it doesn't fail. It already fails to run by default, as it is IUSE=+minimal.
people like me using sddm and kde 5 are not depending on a running xinit (or startx command)...
The bug has been closed via the following commit(s): https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=d0ef4d020d04e5e968c13445ef44d7d64f6cef21 commit d0ef4d020d04e5e968c13445ef44d7d64f6cef21 Author: Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> AuthorDate: 2019-05-15 18:14:16 +0000 Commit: Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> CommitDate: 2019-05-15 18:51:14 +0000 x11-apps/xinit: Rename USE=minimal -> USE=twm Closes: https://bugs.gentoo.org/682384 Signed-off-by: Matt Turner <mattst88@gentoo.org> x11-apps/xinit/xinit-1.4.1.ebuild | 4 ++-- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
I'd just like to say that changing a package almost every desktop user utilizes for the sake of one person who uses '-*' and thinks every flag with the same name will do the same thing ... is an incredibly poor action.
(In reply to matsaman from comment #12) > I'd just like to say that changing a package almost every desktop user > utilizes for the sake of one person who uses '-*' and thinks every flag with > the same name will do the same thing ... is an incredibly poor action. /ignore
What a surprise from someone who ignored all the other developers who commented on this bug saying executing the requested change wouldn't be worthwhile.
(In reply to matsaman from comment #14) > What a surprise from someone who ignored all the other developers who > commented on this bug saying executing the requested change wouldn't be > worthwhile. It's people like you that make me not want to spend my time supporting Gentoo.
Good. Stop making silly unilateral changes and participate in a discussion for a change.
