iamben once told me to not be a victim and instead make the developer ignoring critical bug fix it.. I believe that this should be applied to wiki.gentoo.org as well. Let me share a context with you here: I started using gentoo in 15th April 2018 and it took me nearly 2 months making it work using gentoo handbook for following reasons: Handbook is outdated, missleading and overall terrible: -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Stage#MAKEOPTS Still recomends outdated make.conf -- Still using KernelBox which are missleading and kernel missing the kernel configuration most of the time due updates. -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#fstab_for_swap is missleading -- Recommended using UEFI on minimalCD which wasn't supported untill recently -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Disks#User_should_be_warned_about_making_filesystem doesn't have required informations (based on experience on discord new gentoo user lost all his data cause of this..) -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Tools#systemd.27s_journal talk pages are mostly ignored.. -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Verify_that_UEFI_is_available_on_the_system changes are confirmed to be missleading, but none is updating the wiki Last time i checked i have the most contributions to the wiki 197451 in comparison to maffblasted (who is second based on provided informations) with 41337. SOURCE: https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?namespace=&tagfilter=&translations=noaction&users=Maffblaster&trailer=&days=30000&limit=5000&title=Special%3ARecentChanges https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?namespace=&tagfilter=&translations=noaction&users=Kreyren&trailer=&days=30000&limit=5000&title=Special%3ARecentChanges So i believe that i have the most experience with a wiki to provide relevant info and feedback. Overall Gentoo Wiki is terrible and not supporting contributions: -- Contributions with important info with hotfixes for critical bug are removed https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=AMDGPU&diff=742310&oldid=742292 and replaced with missleading info that was confirmed to not work https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=AMDGPU&diff=next&oldid=742344 in https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667686. -- Translations are not defined correctly and used with terrible plugin which just adds more work to contributors and gentoo mods instead of using wiki.gentoo.org/article/cs ? -- Why can’t we have a community members with permission to make commits to a handbook to keep it updated and relevant? -- Why is relevant and important info discouraged from adding to the wiki? https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=NVidia/nvidia-drivers&diff=744940&oldid=744910 Project_Wiki lacks the human resources and is unable to maintain the wiki: -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia articles are left missleading and not welcoming for the contribution even when my way of contribution updated most of the pages on whole gentoo wiki + those changes needs to be discussed with GrKnight who IS NOT part of Wiki Project and can't be reason with as proved here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NkL81TQa9OecRmqvk5LjUfR2XQl_39Q7HjGyvlp2DQw/edit?usp=sharing + complains are not handled by Gentoo Public Relations or Gentoo Developer relations and are instead transfered to Wiki team who has NO POWER to do anything about it since its only MaffBlaster who is doing lot here, but is limited on time and SwifT who was though to be DEAD for 7 months untill he commited on the github based on provided informations. -- Relevant and important info are removed from the articles: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia/nvidia-drivers -- Gentoo developers who are not part of Project_wiki are allowed and protected to do anything they want even when it’s counter-productive as mensioned above. System on wiki is uneffective and outdated: Why do we have to place every path to {{path|/home/something}} which doesn't even have different formatting and is not used anywhere? Why do we have to use: CODE CODE CODE To add code formating to the wiki instead of something like: ``` CODE CODE CODE ``` AND `CODE` Why can't we use shortcuts to make the formatting alike using Ctrl+B for bolt? Why can't we make something that is supperior to Arch Linux Wiki so that Gentoo users are happy to contribute and keep it updated instead of policing it on work environment which is unsufficient and replacing most contributions with stuff that is counter-productive? Based on my experience on discord to put it in context there ware 4 servers on discord focused on Gentoo one was tdeo’s which was dead and with minimmum activity, Cynede’s which was unfinised and used by none (based on provided informations) mine that was created from scratch with stable community and partially on discord linux which is policed and not-welcoming for new users. I personally merged those communities in one Discord that is now part of Project:Public_Relations maintained by Cynede, bullycef, prometheanfire, leio and other gentoo developers contributed to in to make it usable for new users, invested time and money and bring 241 new users to gentoo and made sure to handle stable community. This community activelly contributed to the gentoo wiki with little motivation from me and other gentoo developers and based on provided informations they have simmilar experience with it and most of them does NOT want to contribute to it. So based on provided informations answer this simple question: What is gentoo? Is it community made of resourcefull users on the most complicated linux distro (excluding LFS) that are widely reffered as “Linux Wizards” OR is it a bad joke? If it’s a joke ignore the line under New Developer: Jacob Hrbek (kreyren) Name: Jakub Hrbek Nick: kreyren Mentor: Cynede, Bullycef (alicef), Prometheanfire, Maffblaster Areas of contributions: Wiki Tree access: Not needed What we did: - bugzilla - LDAP - sent you your LDAP/mail password via encrypted mail with developer quiz. Pending: - announcement - IRC cloak - subscribe to mailing lists with your @gentoo.org address. - request forum status bump in #gentoo-forums or by mail to forum-mods@gentoo.org (if you have a forums account) - add yourself to mail aliases ( like java@gentoo.org ) see /var/mail/alias on dev.gentoo.org Automatic: - gentoo-core(?) - gentoo-dev-announcement(?) What you need to do: - send yourself mail to check if it works - ask team leads to add yourself to herds.xml for the herds you want to join or do it yourself if you have the permission to do so - Register to wiki.gentoo.org with your @gentoo.org e-mail address using the following instructions: https://wiki.gentoo.org/getting-started - contact trustees@gentoo.org for Foundation membership (optional) For the mentor: - You are also responsible for the commits of your recruit during the first month so you should watch the commits of your recruit via gentoo-commits mailing list. For the recruiter (zlogene): - Will be discussed after this bug is resolved. - You said there is a problem with encryption on my developer quiz which is not present on my side will discuss also. - Note that i’m using alterego as Jakub Hrbek which is in violation of GLEP 76 (https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0076.html) for (based on my understanding) for copyright purposes. Since i will be contributing to the gentoo wiki only so far i don’t see a relevance and since i’m publicly known figure in czech republic identifying me with me real name might cause more issues to the gentoo. For copything purposes i can also use Gentoo Trademark with my name instead if it’s still an issue i will provide a solution which will take more time. - Was delayed due issues above. Reproducible: Sometimes Steps to Reproduce: 1. Article is outdated, missleading or full of bloatware 2. Tries to make a contribution 3. Contribution is usually redone by gentoo dev to be more counter-productive and missleading. 4. Tries to discuss this issue with mensioned dev on email, cant be reasoned with. 5. Tries to force the correct commit = Get banned. Actual Results: already provided above. Expected Results: Commits should be resolved via talk pages or using bugs since talk pages are ignored and mods should approach it open-minded to prevent adding missleading and counter-productive info + the system should be updated. already provided above.
We know. Spamming us won't change that.
(In reply to Michał Górny from comment #1) > We know. Spamming us won't change that. meaning?
(In reply to Michał Górny from comment #1) > We know. Spamming us won't change that. As you can see i'm trying to do something about it, but currect work environment on the wiki won't allow that -> Created this bug with hope to change it.
Only problem is you, kreyren, spamming the wiki with misinfo and unfunny random stuff to every page you come across. You might have a large amount of edits but most of them are confusing drivel and make the wiki look unprofessional. I honestly think you should be banned from the wiki because IMO you're a drain to the other users and admins who have to remove your "contributions" all the time. Please take a week or two (or preferably even more) off.
(In reply to fcool from comment #4) > Only problem is you, kreyren, spamming the wiki with misinfo and unfunny > random stuff to every page you come across. You might have a large amount of > edits but most of them are confusing drivel and make the wiki look > unprofessional. I honestly think you should be banned from the wiki because > IMO you're a drain to the other users and admins who have to remove your > "contributions" all the time. Please take a week or two (or preferably even > more) off. At least trying to do something about the wiki which is in terrible state atm. I admit that: 1) Adding nimmy to Nvidia wiki (https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=NVidia&diff=744938&oldid=744904) 2) Adding Three days of krey's - Vulkan to AMDGPU ( https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Vulkan&diff=742130&oldid=742122) Makes the wiki look unprofessional, but as you can see i have a good reasoning for it: 1) Grknight keeps removing any commits to Nvidia page to which i tried to update with important and relevant info as i explained above. Also "nimmy" was made as a halloween decoration for gentoo discord (out of 13 variations). 2) This commit make the developer to take the critical bug that affects multiple users to confirm it and fix the issue which was ignored before and reffered as missconfiguration. There ware also some random commits while i started on wiki, those ware made to ensure that the wiki is moderated, once moderators partially ignored it i removed them and tried to coordinate the community to respect the ethics of adding content to it. All actions that i've made on wiki ware ethical for attempt to update it and keep it updated. I never have any intention to troll or spam on gentoo wiki. Since gentoo seems to finally take this issue seriously i'm changing the status to unconfirmed.
kreyren, Take a deep breath and ponder for a moment ... You have not made a good impression on the wiki, forums or in #gentoo. It follows that either you are misjudging the value of your contributions or, other Gentoo contributors that you come into contact with, are collectively misjudging the value of your contributions. The former is far more likely. Its rather like a new user reporting a bug with the toolchain ... it works for everyone else but this single user. Its far more likely to be something the user is doing. Consider for a moment that you might have something to learn either before or during in the course of making contributions to Gentoo. Gentoo is not perfect and you cannot fix it on your own. You need to carry others with you as you go. There is an English saying "More haste, less speed". I don't know if it translates well but it means that you will get where you are going in less time if you slow down. Slow down and listen, you may learn from others. You can neither set the pace nor the direction until you are seen to be a respected community member. Think about it.
(In reply to Roy Bamford from comment #6) > kreyren, > > Take a deep breath and ponder for a moment ... > You have not made a good impression on the wiki, forums or in #gentoo. > > It follows that either you are misjudging the value of your contributions > or, other Gentoo contributors that you come into contact with, are > collectively misjudging the value of your contributions. The former is far > more likely. Disagree let me prove it: I was using (and i would like gentoo to use this widely on wiki) this way of contribution to the wiki: {{stub}} // COMMENT or <!-- COMMENT --> Alike https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=NVidia/nvidia-drivers&diff=743750&oldid=743748 Please check history of mensioned article you can see how effective it is to update articles, but it is still discouraged. I also updated vulkan article (https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Vulkan&diff=742130&oldid=742122) on the wiki, but the changes ware reverted for no obvious reason even when i provided lots of important info and was working on providing more to make the article fully updated. > Its rather like a new user reporting a bug with the toolchain ... it works > for everyone else but this single user. Its far more likely to be something > the user is doing. As you can see https://bugs.gentoo.org/669818 there are also issues that may affect small user base. When someone on gentoo has issues that discord, IRC, Forums coudn't solve and it was more likely to be a bug i always suggest: Report it to bugs.gentoo.org, it's always better to report false alarm then ignore real problem. As a former tester i believe that this is the most effective way of fixing bugs. > Consider for a moment that you might have something to learn either before > or during in the course of making contributions to Gentoo. I always consider that and approaching everything open-minded. If i make a mistake i'm going to admit that. From my point of view the issue is that if someone in gentoo make a mistake then he/she is unable to admit it and rather thinks that i'm unemergefull and doing actions that are overall counter-productive.. Like examples from my personal experience that i've provided above. It's not always that way there are many developers in gentoo team with which i was able to work effectively and with which i'm happy to cooperate like Cynede, alicef, prometheanfire, maffblaster, etc.. > Gentoo is not perfect and you cannot fix it on your own. You need to carry > others with you as you go. What would you recommend then? If i wrote this issue "more professionaly" this woudn't be resolved at all based on my personal experience.. > There is an English saying "More haste, less speed". I don't know if it > translates well but it means that you will get where you are going in less > time if you slow down. > Slow down and listen, you may learn from others. No need to translate i'm good in english, but i'm not native speaker and i'm speaking in multiple languages so it might prove difficult to me sometimes. And i'm rather fan of effective work tbh, but i agree that sometimes its better to slow down and debate or think about what is the goal and how to achieve it. I still believe that my course of action is the most effective for the wiki and to resolve the issue. > You can neither set the pace nor the direction until you are seen to be a > respected community member. > > Think about it. That might be true in debian/fedora, but based on my personal experience is not possible in gentoo.. Gentoo users has overall more knowledge in UNIX and sometimes it might prove that their experience is outdated or obsolete which is then almost impossible to prove otherwise. Based on my experience agressive approach is the only way and i believe that examples above prove that. Also i would like to add more examples: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667130 Diplomatic approach == was ignored untill it was reported by someone else to be fixed.. https://bugs.gentoo.org/669826 Diplomatic approach == is ignored just now.. "Diplomatic followed by agressive" https://bugs.gentoo.org/667686 Was ignored, though to be missconfiguration which i proven is not even then it was ignored.. was partially fixed after i wrote three days of krey on wiki and developers is willing to listen to it now.. For gentoo i can't think of any other approach to actually reach a goal and based on my cooperation with maffblaster i believe that he already tried to do something about it and failed cause of wrong approach.. To me this approach it most efficient then beeing a "respected user" since you are able eliminate lots of variables to solve the issue..
kreyren, I can see your point of view but cannot share it. Gentoo is an entirely volunteer organisation. Like any volunteer organisation, you can influence it if you work with it and you will be excluded if you try to be disruptive, which is how you are currently perceived. I think your wiki experiences demonstrate that, some of which you cited. Revert wars on the wiki, or anywhere else, do not help further Gentoo. Like all volunteer organisations, the social aspect of how you interact with your peers is important to getting things done. That means listening to criticism and acting on it. In your turn, offering constructive criticism to your peers. When you want to make a disruptive change there is a well trodden path to follow. Its just do it. Do it in such a way that insterested parties know what you are working on and can see it develop without changing the working in place material ... that's part of working with others and influencing them. For a wiki page, make a new page in your userspace. Leave the 'live' page alone until your replacement is ready. Its easy enough so switch pages once your new page is ready. For code, make a fork. It can be merged again later. To be blunt, either you have the wrong approach to Gentoo or Gentoo has the wrong approach to you. It doesn't matter who thinks what. Your current approach to Gentoo is not working or this bug would not have been created. Gentoo can't change to accomodate your approach, its too much change too fast. The only solution left if you still want to contribute to Gentoo is for you to change your approach to Gentoo.
(In reply to Roy Bamford from comment #8) > kreyren, > > I can see your point of view but cannot share it. > > Gentoo is an entirely volunteer organisation. Like any volunteer > organisation, you can influence it if you work with it and you will be > excluded if you try to be disruptive, which is how you are currently > perceived. > > I think your wiki experiences demonstrate that, some of which you cited. > Revert wars on the wiki, or anywhere else, do not help further Gentoo. I was discussing those changes with GrKnight, but since he can't be reason with i tried to make the changes public with comments explaing why is mensioned edit required, important. Which was semi-effective.. Note that In ideall world the complain on GrKnight would be taken seriously, talk pages wouldn't be ignored and wiki updated with suitable work environment. > Like all volunteer organisations, the social aspect of how you interact > with your peers is important to getting things done. That means listening to > criticism and acting on it. In your turn, offering constructive criticism to > your peers. As i said the Project: Wiki based on provided lacks the human resources and Maffblaster doesn't have the ability nor permission to deal with gentoo developers making counter-effective commits.. As you can see on Project: Public Relations, Artwork the cooperation with me is not an issue there. > When you want to make a disruptive change there is a well trodden path to > follow. > Its just do it. Do it in such a way that insterested parties know what you > are working on and can see it develop without changing the working in place > material ... that's part of working with others and influencing them. I did it that way and proved many times that this way is super effective in comparison to current way of updating the wiki.. I don't believe that there are interested parties in wiki from gentoo team excluding Maffblaster so i have no other option especially when i'm using the wiki for my personal use on gentoo so that i don't have to spam IRC and mentors all the time and update it in a mean time based on my experience.. > For a wiki page, make a new page in your userspace. Leave the 'live' page > alone until your replacement is ready. Its easy enough so switch pages once > your new page is ready. That's what i was doing, but the issue is that i can't always provide all the info and so i believe that leaving {{stub}} with comment for others to update if they have the required info is effective way of updating the wiki.. > For code, make a fork. It can be merged again later. > > To be blunt, either you have the wrong approach to Gentoo or Gentoo has the > wrong approach to you. It doesn't matter who thinks what. > > Your current approach to Gentoo is not working or this bug would not have > been created. Gentoo can't change to accomodate your approach, its too much > change too fast. > > The only solution left if you still want to contribute to Gentoo is for you > to change your approach to Gentoo. forking code is not an issue. My current approach worked for nearly 6 months untill GrKnight came to wiki with other gentoo developers undoing my work and making me discuss everything via e-mail and making multiple edits which even then are removed.. I don't have the resources or required to make better solution especially when Gentoo doesn't seem to care about wiki and it's improvements that are needed.. Suggest me a better way and i will adapt it.
If i may suggest a solution stop ignoring talk pages is a good start.. The HOTFIX for this situation could be to discuss the changes on wiki@gentoo.org if you add all gentoo devs that are contributing to the wiki and provide the instructions for non-gentoo contributors to provide the neccesary informations effectively ideally with template like: ``` Subject: Gentoo Wiki #<commit> <URL> <short and effective: justification, conversation, etc..> - <signature> ``` To ensure that the issues will be approached open-minded to achieve updated wiki..
(In reply to KostWarCZE from comment #9) > [...] > My current approach worked for nearly 6 months untill GrKnight came to wiki > with other gentoo developers undoing my work and making me discuss > everything via e-mail and making multiple edits which even then are removed.. > [...] > I don't have the resources or required to make better solution especially > when Gentoo doesn't seem to care about wiki and it's improvements that are > needed.. I am sorry to be blunt, but you have cost us already about 10h of work just reverting and undoing a burst of erratic edits on the wiki. I took the time to carefully check all of your examples of "misleading", "outdated" and "overall terrible" instances on the wiki, I disagree with every single one of your comments. On the other hand I got the impression that most of the points you got upset about are mainly a misunderstandings or misconceptions on your side. Further, a wiki is not a terribly good communication medium. May I suggest you use another communication channel first in order to validate your claims before you edit a wiki page, or leave a comment?
(In reply to Matthias Maier from comment #11) > (In reply to KostWarCZE from comment #9) > > > [...] > > > My current approach worked for nearly 6 months untill GrKnight came to wiki > > with other gentoo developers undoing my work and making me discuss > > everything via e-mail and making multiple edits which even then are removed.. > > > [...] > > > I don't have the resources or required to make better solution especially > > when Gentoo doesn't seem to care about wiki and it's improvements that are > > needed.. > > I am sorry to be blunt, but you have cost us already about 10h of work just > reverting and undoing a burst of erratic edits on the wiki. > > I took the time to carefully check all of your examples of "misleading", > "outdated" and "overall terrible" instances on the wiki, I disagree with > every single one of your comments. On the other hand I got the impression > that most of the points you got upset about are mainly a misunderstandings > or misconceptions on your side. I've provided proofs to my statements if you want to blame me do the same or i can't take you seriously.. Everyone can complain, few can find the solution or admit it's faults. On the other hand i've never seen tamiko doing any commits there.. Further more you checked all 100K+ commits made by me? That seem unlikely.. > Further, a wiki is not a terribly good communication medium. May I suggest > you use another communication channel first in order to validate your claims > before you edit a wiki page, or leave a comment? If it's not obvious i already tried to resolve this issue on #gentoo-wiki which is mostly dead, #wiki on discord that i've created and which is fairy active or using talk pages that are ignored.. I'm doing my best to validate my comments and i've proved that using comments is very effective to update the articles on the wiki.. ... bugs.gentoo.org is not place to flame people if you want your accusations to be valid and taken into a consideration then you need to provide relevant info AND/OR constructive critism on which we can make a decision.. as did i
To clarify: > For the recruiter (zlogene): >You said there is a problem with encryption on my developer quiz which is not >present on my side Please read the gpg user guide, we ask people to sign quizzes with their public key, not to _encrypt_ it with their public key, if you encrypted this it is your problem, not ours. > Note that i’m using alterego as Jakub Hrbek which is in violation of GLEP 76 Do not use it then, no exception can be made. > If it’s a joke ignore the line under it is missunderstanding, because: a.) noone of your "mentors" confirmed the wilingness to be your mentors (I personally asked them, they all were wondering why you considered them as your mentors). b.) you have no right to request yourself as a developer, only your mentor is authorised to do so c.) after I looked through your contributions over gentoo (including bugs, wiki. so on) I can conclude recruiters are not ready to accept you unless you learn how to work within the community, although I believe you can change the situation, it depends only on you.
(In reply to Mikle Kolyada from comment #13) > To clarify: > > > For the recruiter (zlogene): > > >You said there is a problem with encryption on my developer quiz which is not > > >present on my side > > Please read the gpg user guide, we ask people to sign quizzes with their > public key, not to _encrypt_ it with their public key, if you encrypted this > it is your problem, not ours. Quiz was encrypted+signed AND signed only based on informations in gpg https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GnuPG#Encrypting_and_signing. I will verify it in 14/11/2018. > > > Note that i’m using alterego as Jakub Hrbek which is in violation of GLEP 76 > > Do not use it then, no exception can be made. I understand that there are many exceptions for using alterego in gentoo team and i believe that my situation based on provided reasoning is also suitable for it. > > > If it’s a joke ignore the line under > > it is missunderstanding, because: > > a.) noone of your "mentors" confirmed the wilingness to be your mentors (I > personally asked them, they all were wondering why you considered them as > your mentors). Based on my current approach to resolve issues above (which i proved to be required) i don't think that they would want to be confirm beeing my mentor and be responsible in case this issue goes wrong.. They are all busy people and i don't want to waste their time. Please focus on resolving issues on wiki first then we can discuss developer bug, as i said i don't want to be part of terrible joke which Project:Wiki seems to me at this moment.. > b.) you have no right to request yourself as a developer, only your mentor > is authorised to do so i'm aware of it, my mentors can create the developer bug once the issue is solved and source the informations from this bug. > c.) after I looked through your contributions over gentoo (including bugs, > wiki. so on) > I can conclude recruiters are not ready to accept you unless you learn how > to work within the community, although I believe you can change the > situation, it depends only on you. i'm not able to adapt for this acting if the work environment is not suitable for it with cooperation that would allow me to change my approach as proved above. "professional approach" is ignored and not possible to work with.
Please don't change the status untill the bug is resolved.
Given the bug is assigned to wiki team, please limit any comments to technical issues regarding Gentoo Wiki. Your recruitment status is completely irrelevant to this. Furthermore, as part of the policy issues with articles are to be reported using Talk pages. FWICS, there's nothing to be done here by the wiki team, ergo the bug is resolved. If you believe it isn't, please provide short-but-understandable explanation of what Wiki admins can do for you. Also, please don't reopen the bug that has been closed by the assignee. If the assignee believes you to be correct, he will reopen the bug. Otherwise, your behavior is considered at least impolite.
(In reply to Michał Górny from comment #16) > Given the bug is assigned to wiki team, please limit any comments to > technical issues regarding Gentoo Wiki. Your recruitment status is > completely irrelevant to this. Furthermore, as part of the policy issues > with articles are to be reported using Talk pages. Please read the comments before make a statement, let me repeat myself (again): 1) Talk pages are ignored! -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Tools#systemd.27s_journal -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/About -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Media -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Disks#User_should_be_warned_about_making_filesystem -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/System#The_network_section_is_not_valid_anymore -- and so on.. + resolving changes using email is unsufficient especially if the recipient is just one and not willing to listen. + IRC #gentoo-wiki is mostly dead.. 2) Wiki/Handbook is outdated/obsolete: -- {{path|/home/something}} does not change formatting and is useless. -- many articles has too many irelevant info instead of important for the end-user to use = obsolete -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia/nvidia-drivers#Kernel_compatibility == Too many irelevant info = obsolete -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#Alternative:_Using_genkernel Gentoo Handbook still recommends using `genkernel all` which has high probability of breaking the bootloader . -- Translation plugin wastes the human resources and is pita to use by developers and by the community == obsolete. -- formating can be improved to be more effective as mensioned in Comment #1 -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Stage#MAKEOPTS = recommends outdated MAKEOPTS EDIT: wrong *Flags https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Stage#CFLAGS_and_CXXFLAGS -- 3) Articles are missleading: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#fstab_for_swap = required informations are not present on page that discuss using fstab. -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook_Talk:AMD64/Installation/Bootloader#Verify_that_UEFI_is_available_on_the_system = Changes are confirmed as missleading, but none updates them.. -- https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia and https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia/nvidia-drivers is impossible to use to install Nvidia GPU on gentoo and changes that include important info are discouraged mostly. > FWICS, there's nothing to be done here by the wiki team, ergo the bug is > resolved. If you believe it isn't, please provide short-but-understandable > explanation of what Wiki admins can do for you. As provided above there is lot that should be done.. > Also, please don't reopen the bug that has been closed by the assignee. If > the assignee believes you to be correct, he will reopen the bug. Otherwise, > your behavior is considered at least impolite. noted. In addition i'm provided TLDR from other comments: ... I admit that: 1) Adding nimmy to Nvidia wiki (https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=NVidia&diff=744938&oldid=744904) 2) Adding Three days of krey's - Vulkan to AMDGPU ( https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Vulkan&diff=742130&oldid=742122) Makes the wiki look unprofessional, but as you can see i have a good reasoning for it: 1) Grknight keeps removing any commits to Nvidia page to which i tried to update with important and relevant info as i explained above. Also "nimmy" was made as a halloween decoration for gentoo discord (out of 13 variations). 2) This commit make the developer to take the critical bug that affects multiple users to confirm it and fix the issue which was ignored before and reffered as missconfiguration. There ware also some random commits while i started on wiki, those ware made to ensure that the wiki is moderated, once moderators partially ignored it i removed them and tried to coordinate the community to respect the ethics of adding content to it. ... Why do we have to use: CODE CODE CODE which is uneffective and PITA to use. Using something alike: ``` CODE CODE CODE ``` AND `CODE` is supperior and more user-friendly. Why can't we use shortcuts to make the formatting alike using Ctrl+B for bolt, etc.. Why can't we have wiki that has sufficient work environment for contributors to use? changes are not hard to perform.. ... *irelevant PR move that resulted in bringing more contributors to the wiki who hates the implementation..*
I was asking for a short explanation. Ability to be concise is very important to be able to properly communicate with others. That said, I still don't see what wiki admins can do for you. We don't maintain the wiki contents but merely ensure that it works. The contents are up to the community and to developers, given respective parts.
(In reply to Michał Górny from comment #18) > I was asking for a short explanation. Ability to be concise is very > important to be able to properly communicate with others. > > That said, I still don't see what wiki admins can do for you. We don't > maintain the wiki contents but merely ensure that it works. The contents > are up to the community and to developers, given respective parts. DISCLAMER: I'm convinced that it's impossible to make it any shorter nor effective without sacrificing the meaning. I'm aware of that you are busy and so i did my best to shorten all upcomming messages as much is possible. --- To be honest i've provided problems, proof of them in practice based on personal experience and recommended solutions and you are keep telling me that you can't do anything about it.. That just seems as excuses to me.. At very least please add everyone from gentoo that is making commits to a gentoo wiki on wiki@gentoo.org mailing list so that commits can be discussed.. since using Talk pages, IRC, Discord and e-mailing inviduals is not suitable for this use.. --- I would then like to discuss using: {{stub}} <!-- COMMENT --> for updating articles, i've proved many times that this way is very effective and i believe that it has the potential of making all wiki pages updated with the help of the community. I strongly believe that this method is worth the cost of making the articles full of stubs.. I would also like to suggest adding fork of "stub" which can be used for this purpose and which can be seen only by registered users to solve the issue of making the article more representative for the end-user. --- Discussing obsolete articles should be next. I strongly believe that articles should provide the neccesary informations in the most effective way possible and avoid adding additional bloatware which is irelevant alike https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/NVidia/nvidia-drivers#Hardware_compatibility Which i tried to update using sub-section legacy hardware and optimizing it to be usable, unfornunatelly i was banned on the wiki. --- I would also like to request my unban from the wiki.gentoo.org for following reasons: 1) I was accused of trolling, wasting gentoo resources and spamming on the wiki.gentoo.org. Based on provided informations in this bug i've disproved all those accusations and provided usefull feedback for the Project:Wiki that based on commits is implementing just now which proves that following reason: "Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages: (requested by zlogene))" IS INVALID! 2) I believe that as a follow up to my ban on wiki.gentoo.org i was also banned on Gentoo Discord where i also have the most contributions which is based on provided informations also invalid if there are any other issues i would like to invite Misha Pukhlikov (Cynede) to this discussion for additional clarification if neccesary. --- Please note that i will be using this account for bugs.gentoo.org since kostwarcze@rixotstudio.cz is work account that is used by other people.
Additional clarification. Ban on discord server is not related to your wiki activity. reasons are: - breaking discord ToS, spamming another server after being banned there - flaming with admins of that server on gentoo server - conflict with admins of lutris on gentoo server after being banned there - offensive language towards gentoo discord server admin I will not discuss additional details of those in this bug.
(In reply to Cynede from comment #20) > Additional clarification. > Ban on discord server is not related to your wiki activity. reasons are: > - breaking discord ToS, spamming another server after being banned there Please provide proof, Discord Linux was spammed by the community after i was banned.. i only support this public protest, because i don't want to support "toxic" community which is banning it's users for no reason and bulling new users with counter-productive suggestions.. Also note that i was the one who suggested partnership with that server for Gentoo's discord that you realized after and that this partnership increased the member count by 17 users who are interested/using gentoo. > - flaming with admins of that server on gentoo server I'm not responsible for other community members. > - conflict with admins of lutris on gentoo server after being banned there Please provide whole log of my conversation with Tannis Root. I believe that it cleary states that i'm not the agressor and that lutris kept false accused me without proving any evidence.. As i tried to warn about this behavior from lutris team on gentoo wiki: https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Lutris&diff=741358&oldid=741356 which was also supported by other community members. Also note that other gentoo users had simmilar experience with lutris in past based on provided informations from Lutris discord community.. > - offensive language towards gentoo discord server admin I practically built that server from scratch with you and i get angry for you instantly believing new user accusing me of bad behavior without any evidence.. From my point of view the insult was well deserved and i apologized for it after.. > I will not discuss additional details of those in this bug. Is this really how gentoo treats it's contributors with the most commits for Discord in Project: Public Relations? I only agreed and suggested the ban myself in the best interest of Gentoo since i was unable to provide logs from server on which i'm banned and this ban was never meant to be permanent..
we can discuss unban on next year, but for now please calm down and try to be helpful elsewhere.
48h ban has been set on both accounts (as per proctors policy), all possible (further) virtuals will be banned as well. Repeated violations will be raised to the ComRel team.
(In reply to Mikle Kolyada from comment #23) > 48h ban has been set on both accounts (as per proctors policy), all possible > (further) virtuals will be banned as well. Repeated violations will be > raised to the ComRel team. retracted
(In reply to Mikle Kolyada from comment #24) > (In reply to Mikle Kolyada from comment #23) > > 48h ban has been set on both accounts (as per proctors policy), all possible > > (further) virtuals will be banned as well. Repeated violations will be > > raised to the ComRel team. > > retracted thanks.. Most of things that i've reported ware fixed so i'm at least happy for that.. I hope that i will be able to use gentoo wiki after ban and not be forced to make a fork. Requesting to close this bug as fixed i've provided more info in e-mail which i don't want to discuss more and i've taken my request to became gentoo developer back.
