Created attachment 493426 [details] Funding request form. Please see attached request form.
R0b0t1: 1. None of r0b0t1/undersys/foxit are Gentoo developers; so this needs clarification. I have amended the summary to say users instead of developers. 2. If the systems were hosted at OSL, would there be more benefit? (if they have rack-mounting). 3. There is no estimation of customs & duties costs in the shipping, nor details on who is going to undertake that paperwork (it's going to be some work).
1. Okay. I am personally a bit confused as to what gentoo-dev is for, because a lot of active users are not developers. 2. Colocation was discussed in passing. I am not sure it makes sense due to the age of the systems. For example, look here (https://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/CompileFarm, heading "Offline") at the list of offline systems in the GCC compilation farm. Additionally, I have access to PowerPC systems though the GCC project, but I am finding it hard to do work on them due to them not being physically next to me and not having administrator rights on those machines. If I find myself unable to use the machine for Gentoo related work I would have no problem forwarding it to someone else, but by that point the machine may actually be so old as to be useless. After the machine is in the US I expect it to be easier to move around. 3. The machines are a gift and it is my understanding they would not be taxed. I have received a lot of packages this way that were not actually gifts. It would be kind of sad if something that was actually a gift was the package that was held at customs. I expect undersys would do the Hong Kong to US paperwork, and expect I would do the US to Canada paperwork if foxit's request is to be included.
In the case of the IBM Power6+ machine at least, used models sell for $600-$1000 discounting shipping despite it being out of date. I expect the case is similar in that of the HP j6750. This seems to be largely due to scarcity. The funds aren't being requested to move junk around. Despite the previous comment I am not opposed to colocation (it would be very helpful if I can administer the machine), but it may be rude to request someone spend money to keep old computers running. I'm not sure.
(In reply to R030t1 from comment #2) > > 3. The machines are a gift and it is my understanding they would not be > taxed. I have received a lot of packages this way that were not actually > gifts. It would be kind of sad if something that was actually a gift was the > package that was held at customs. I believe that anything valued at less that $800 that aren't food/drugs or animal/plant-derived can now be imported into the US duty free under Section 321. The value of the goods is whatever it would sell for on ebay - not what you paid for it. Sure, lots of companies falsify their declarations, but this is a crime. I suspect that a lot of the consumer stuff stamped as a low value gift is the result of the exporters not realizing the limits were recently raised to $800. As long as the goods are honestly described in the documents you shouldn't get into any trouble. You might or might not end up having to fill out paperwork and pay duties. I think that for "small" express shipments the shipping company usually facilitates this (because they generally don't want to deal with stuff being held at the border either). (By small I'm talking stuff that doesn't require forklifts or cranes to move.)
So I actually live in Oklahoma, not Canada. I'm not sure where Canada came from. There was additionally an HP Zx2000 Itanium2 that I believed was going to be going to me, in addition to the j6750. I intended to try my hand at porting the musl libc to the Itanium, in addition to ensuring hppa patches are still current. I would also like to upstream hppa patches where possible, so that distributions do not need to deal with it (lessening the maintenance burden). I would be personally fine with a rackmount solution as long as I still had wheel access (for a chroot).
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #1) > R0b0t1: > 1. None of r0b0t1/undersys/foxit are Gentoo developers; so this needs > clarification. I have amended the summary to say users instead of developers. > 2. If the systems were hosted at OSL, would there be more benefit? (if they > have rack-mounting). > 3. There is no estimation of customs & duties costs in the shipping, nor > details on who is going to undertake that paperwork (it's going to be some > work). 1. Correct. 2. I am going to stay out of this point. I want to see Gentoo benefit and the minor arch's still be some part of Gentoo. That is all *I* care about, of course this is more to this point however. :) 3. I am working on getting quotes from SF* and two other local shipping agents. * http://www.sf-express.com/us/en/ Once I have quotes I will attach them here. (unless requested otherwise) I will undertake the customs export and duty's forms. You are correct in saying this is a hassle, I do it a fair bit at my day job :) However this case is different as the goods are second hand and for non commercial use. I want to try reduce the shipping burden on my side. So I would prefer to ship all the equipment to one person/location in the USA. From my understanding the equipment is going to the following people : R0b0t1 : IBM P520 Power6+. foxkit/awilfox : HP j6750 + HP Zx2000 IA64.
OK So I have spoken with SF Express in HK. They do not offer a sea shipment option. Approximate cost two ship the listed servers is $500 USD. Local agent was also around the same price. Thoughts ?
Other carriers I looked at were $500 for one ~65lb system; SF is approximately half the price. Reshipping the second computer from its initial destination will incur additional charges.
(In reply to R030t1 from comment #8) > Other carriers I looked at were $500 for one ~65lb system; SF is > approximately half the price. Reshipping the second computer from its > initial destination will incur additional charges. (This response is intended mostly to improve the request, not to approve it; I'm no longer a trustee, so I have no ability to approve. I am however the assistant treasurer, so I'll probably be involved in the actual financial handling) Brendan: - can you give dimensions & weight for the packaged system that would be re-shipped? - Not sure if you'd bundle all 3 together, or just have 3 boxes in the shipment, and then some could be reshipped directly (after inspecting for damage in the first hop). - Was the SF-Express flat-rate to everywhere in the USA, or did you need more details on destination address? awilfox: Can you privately provide Brendan or R0b0t1 with enough address details needed to estimate reship costs? So far it's looking like: option A) - Ship 3 systems from Hong Kong to ???, USA - Reship 2 system from ???, USA to Oklahoma, USA option B) - Ship 3 systems from Hong Kong to Oklahoma, USA - Reship 1 system from Oklahoma, USA to ???, USA Declared value for insurance & customs/duties: HP Zx2000 Itanium2: ??? ($500 is my estimate, depends heavily on specs) HP j6750 HPPA: ??? ($1500USD my estimate, depends heavily on specs) IBM Power 6+ p560: $600-$1000 Note, this DOES put it over the $800 limit, even as a gift, so duties are going to be involved. Shipping cost: ~$500USD for the j6750 & Power6+ ??? for the Zx2000
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #9) > Brendan: > - can you give dimensions & weight for the packaged system that would be > re-shipped? I will not be packing the systems myself, boxes/cardboard are an odd commodity in HK. SF will pack the systems on my behalf. I will pay for this myself. So I will give you the dimensions and weight for the base systems. Power6 : Width 44cm Length 53.8cm height 17.3 cm weight 34kg j6750 : width 48cm length 62cm hight 8.8cm weight 20kg Zx2000 : This will just be board, psu and cards. As discussed with awilfox on IRC. > - Not sure if you'd bundle all 3 together, or just have 3 boxes in the > shipment, and then some could be reshipped directly (after inspecting for > damage in the first hop). This will be up to SF. > - Was the SF-Express flat-rate to everywhere in the USA, or did you need > more details on destination address? It was a estimate based on shipping to Kansas, USA. > Declared value for insurance & customs/duties: > HP Zx2000 Itanium2: ??? ($500 is my estimate, depends heavily on specs) SPECS : Single 1ghz Deerfield Itanium2. 8gb ram. 4x 36gb SCSI disks, DDS tape trive Two LSI SCSI cards, ATi Video card. > HP j6750 HPPA: ??? ($1500USD my estimate, depends heavily on specs) dual CPU 875mhz, 9gb ram, 2x SCSi disks. HBA FX10pro vga. > IBM Power 6+ p560: $600-$1000 (Its a P520 btw) Single Power6+ 4.2ghz dual core, 64GB ram, two SAS disks. Supports LPAR, Capacity on demand license management via HMAC > Note, this DOES put it over the $800 limit, even as a gift, so duties are > going to be involved. Agree, unsure what the duties cost would be for USA. > Shipping cost: > ~$500USD for the j6750 & Power6+ > ??? for the Zx2000 Maybe add an extra $50/60 USD. Its just parts vs a whole 4ru box.
Hello, I calculated the approximate price to ship the Power6+ server using Fedex Ground and it comes out to ~$60 for OK to KS. I wasn't able to figure out UPS' website so I could not get a quote from them. In my experience it should be similar. 75lbs is too heavy for the USPS. Packaging will cost more and may add to the cost above. I would expect $100 maximum to reship the Power6+ system.
Just so this is not seeming to 'rot'. I will be out of the country for 2 weeks now. Additionally I do not have a confirmed shipping address (KS or OK)
Mostly back in one country now. I will start working on the shipping. However can we please confirm who I should be shipping the kit too. As an official record
Hello everyone, (In reply to Brendan Horan from comment #13) > However can we please confirm who I should be shipping the kit too. > As an official record Brendan's message prompted some off-tracker chatter that didn't make it back to this item. It is my understanding awilfox will be receiving the machines and then shipping the POWER system to me.
@brendan: My updated declared value estimated from your specs: Zx2000: $750. HP j6750 HPPA: $1250. Power6: $1500. Total: $3500. Please tell me if you agree with this. Shipping estimate: Hong Kong -> OK: $600 OK->KS (Power6): $200 Customs/Duties estimate: $700 (worst case 20% of declared value) Brokerage Fees: $200 Total cost: $1800.
Customs tariff codes research: Power6: 84.71.49.00 HP j6750 HPPA: 84.71.50.00? maybe? Zx2000: 84.71.49.00 - if a complete unit, probably different since it's shipping as parts
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #15) > @brendan: > My updated declared value estimated from your specs: > Zx2000: $750. > HP j6750 HPPA: $1250. > Power6: $1500. > Total: $3500. > Please tell me if you agree with this. > > Shipping estimate: > Hong Kong -> OK: $600 > OK->KS (Power6): $200 > > Customs/Duties estimate: > $700 (worst case 20% of declared value) > Brokerage Fees: > $200 > > Total cost: > $1800. Not sure how you got the above values? I paid a lot less for the power6. Same goes for most of the other kit.
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #16) > Customs tariff codes research: > Power6: 84.71.49.00 > HP j6750 HPPA: 84.71.50.00? maybe? > Zx2000: 84.71.49.00 - if a complete unit, probably different since it's > shipping as parts Thanks for that. I may end up shipping the systems as a whole (IA64)
Just a quick update, I am having large issues with HK customs. It seems there are some new regulations. Trying to work thou the details of this but so far lots of places won't touch the shipment with out an export license.
Anyone got any good ideas for shipping? I am running into the issue of shipping firms here classing the servers as commercial, thus asking me for export permits. Is there a way we could organize a US based shipping company to collect from me/ arrange end to end delivery? I don't mind paying for that, just not sure if its an option?
(In reply to Brendan Horan from comment #20) > Anyone got any good ideas for shipping? > I am running into the issue of shipping firms here classing the servers as > commercial, thus asking me for export permits. > Pushing back hasn't gotten anywhere? > Is there a way we could organize a US based shipping company to collect from > me/ arrange end to end delivery? > From investigating UPS and FedEx for the initial proposal, it looks like both operate in Hong Kong. What was missing was anything cheaper than air shipping (e.g. intermodal or freight). I'd recommend that you contact them as they will want very specific information. If you have problems I can see what I can do. > I don't mind paying for that, just not sure if its an option? > Unless you can find a method besides air it seems to me like the cost will increase significantly. Thanks for the updates, I hope this ends up working out.
(In reply to R030t1 from comment #21) > (In reply to Brendan Horan from comment #20) > > Anyone got any good ideas for shipping? > > I am running into the issue of shipping firms here classing the servers as > > commercial, thus asking me for export permits. > > > Pushing back hasn't gotten anywhere? Not at all, HK firms stick very much to the book/laws for this sort of thing. If they can check off/follow the exact steps listed they just won't do it. > From investigating UPS and FedEx for the initial proposal, it looks like > both operate in Hong Kong. What was missing was anything cheaper than air > shipping (e.g. intermodal or freight). > > I'd recommend that you contact them as they will want very specific > information. If you have problems I can see what I can do. I've spoken to DHL, Fedex and UPS. They all want export permits. I've tried to talk to some more local shippers in the hope they may not care. However that did not work out either. > > I don't mind paying for that, just not sure if its an option? > > > Unless you can find a method besides air it seems to me like the cost will > increase significantly. > I can bare more of the cost if needed. I do not like to see equipment in the bin.
Include an actual quote for air shipping, it's good as a baseline for the proposal if nothing else. What's the requirements for a one-time export license from Hong Kong? There's also looking at more creative options: finding somebody that is flying soon and willing to take it as special excess luggage (and ship it from the airport once they are in the USA/Canada).
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #23) > Include an actual quote for air shipping, it's good as a baseline for the > proposal if nothing else. I would if they would issue me a quote :) Sadly they just won't do it either. > > What's the requirements for a one-time export license from Hong Kong? I think I can use this form : https://www.stc.tid.gov.hk/english/download/files/TID502-2014.pdf REF : https://www.stc.tid.gov.hk/english/circular_pub/stc7_04.html Still going over it, nothing is ever simple. > There's also looking at more creative options: finding somebody that is > flying soon and willing to take it as special excess luggage (and ship it > from the airport once they are in the USA/Canada). I do not actually know to many people from either country.
At this point I can not see a way forward sadly. I can't seem to get an export permit. No shipping company wants to accept the shipment. I'd really not rather see the kit in a scrap heap, but that is looking likely. Anyone else got any idear's ?
Brendan: so you applied for a permit and couldn't get one? Or the process was too much of a mess to make progress?
(In reply to Brendan Horan from comment #25) > Anyone else got any idear's ? Can you contact the office of your government representation to request legal aid? I have contacted public relations at the Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office and referred them to this bug.
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #26) > Brendan: so you applied for a permit and couldn't get one? Or the process > was too much of a mess to make progress? Kinda both. I tried submitting the correct paper work and variations of it. Got things like well you need a HK BR number, HK ID(I have one), or both. Or responses like, "but these are not home/consumer goods. Why would you have them?" Or in some cases nothing, call back a few weeks later, oh that application has been cancelled. I know even in my day job getting kit exported out of HK is a horrible experience.
(In reply to R030t1 from comment #27) > (In reply to Brendan Horan from comment #25) > > Anyone else got any idear's ? > > Can you contact the office of your government representation to request > legal aid? I have contacted public relations at the Hong Kong Economic and > Trade Office and referred them to this bug. I doubt my local member of government would have be helpful. Its hard enough dealing with bad neighbours upstairs. However thanks, lets see if there is any outcome.
Did we ever ship anything here (and if so, did we ever pay any expenses?) -A
(In reply to Alec Warner from comment #30) > Did we ever ship anything here (and if so, did we ever pay any expenses?) > > -A I gave one SPARC system away to a user in China (Wsa via IRC , said they would use it for Gentoo) Tha was no cost to me nor the Foundation. Other systems I ended up giving away to other local people . It was simply impossible to ship them outside of Hong Kong. Thus no money was ever needed or requested from the foundation. Please close this off.
