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Bug 480702 - media-sound/amarok segfaults on startup with dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2
Summary: media-sound/amarok segfaults on startup with dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2
Status: RESOLVED TEST-REQUEST
Alias: None
Product: Gentoo Linux
Classification: Unclassified
Component: [OLD] KDE (show other bugs)
Hardware: AMD64 Linux
: Normal normal (vote)
Assignee: Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2013-08-12 09:26 UTC by Sebastian Rose
Modified: 2013-09-27 08:03 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


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Description Sebastian Rose 2013-08-12 09:26:44 UTC
Since upgrading to dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2 amarok crashes with a segfault on startup. I'm not 100% sure that is has to do with glib, but since this is the backtrace that is being generated:

Application: Amarok (amarok), signal: Segmentation fault
Using host libthread_db library "/lib64/libthread_db.so.1".
[KCrash Handler]
#6  __strcmp_sse2 () at ../sysdeps/x86_64/multiarch/../strcmp.S:212
#7  0x00000038f5a3c049 in g_str_equal (v1=<optimized out>, v2=<optimized out>) at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/glib/ghash.c:1706
#8  0x00000038f5a3b6ed in g_hash_table_lookup_node (hash_return=<synthetic pointer>, key=0x7f931f9cc88a, hash_table=0x1618800) at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/glib/ghash.c:386
#9  g_hash_table_lookup (hash_table=0x1618800, key=key@entry=0x7f931f9cc88a) at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/glib/ghash.c:1076
#10 0x00000038f5a5ab30 in quark_from_string (duplicate=0, string=0x7f931f9cc88a "-g-type-private--GTypeFlags") at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/glib/gquark.c:173
#11 g_quark_from_static_string (string=string@entry=0x7f931f9cc88a "-g-type-private--GTypeFlags") at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/glib/gquark.c:239
#12 0x00007f931f99606c in gobject_init_ctor () at /var/tmp/portage/dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2/work/glib-2.36.3/gobject/gtype.c:4365
#13 0x0000003fa980ecae in call_init (env=0x1445350, argv=0x7fffccfe9be8, argc=1, l=<optimized out>) at dl-init.c:84
#14 call_init (l=<optimized out>, argc=1, argv=0x7fffccfe9be8, env=0x1445350) at dl-init.c:34
#15 0x0000003fa980ed82 in _dl_init (main_map=main_map@entry=0x16256d0, argc=1, argv=0x7fffccfe9be8, env=0x1445350) at dl-init.c:133
#16 0x0000003fa9812eea in dl_open_worker (a=a@entry=0x7fffccfe52c8) at dl-open.c:566
#17 0x0000003fa980eb09 in _dl_catch_error (objname=objname@entry=0x7fffccfe52b8, errstring=errstring@entry=0x7fffccfe52c0, mallocedp=mallocedp@entry=0x7fffccfe52b7, operate=operate@entry=0x3fa9812b00 <dl_open_worker>, args=args@entry=0x7fffccfe52c8) at dl-error.c:177
#18 0x0000003fa98126ab in _dl_open (file=0x1625f80 "/usr/lib/vlc/plugins/text_renderer/libsvg_plugin.so", mode=-2147483647, caller_dlopen=<optimized out>, nsid=-2, argc=1, argv=0x7fffccfe9be8, env=0x1445350) at dl-open.c:656
#19 0x0000003faa80121b in dlopen_doit (a=a@entry=0x7fffccfe54e0) at dlopen.c:66
#20 0x0000003fa980eb09 in _dl_catch_error (objname=0x12377d0, errstring=0x12377d8, mallocedp=0x12377c8, operate=0x3faa8011c0 <dlopen_doit>, args=0x7fffccfe54e0) at dl-error.c:177
#21 0x0000003faa80182d in _dlerror_run (operate=operate@entry=0x3faa8011c0 <dlopen_doit>, args=args@entry=0x7fffccfe54e0) at dlerror.c:163
#22 0x0000003faa8012b1 in __dlopen (file=file@entry=0x1625f80 "/usr/lib/vlc/plugins/text_renderer/libsvg_plugin.so", mode=mode@entry=1) at dlopen.c:87
#23 0x00000031b588f86f in module_Load (p_this=p_this@entry=0x1447598, psz_file=psz_file@entry=0x1625f80 "/usr/lib/vlc/plugins/text_renderer/libsvg_plugin.so", p_handle=p_handle@entry=0x7fffccfe5548, lazy=<optimized out>) at posix/plugin.c:62
#24 0x00000031b587a9da in module_InitDynamic (obj=0x1447598, path=0x1625f80 "/usr/lib/vlc/plugins/text_renderer/libsvg_plugin.so", fast=<optimized out>) at modules/bank.c:536
#25 0x00000031b587acca in AllocatePluginFile (st=<optimized out>, relpath=<optimized out>, abspath=<optimized out>, bank=<optimized out>) at modules/bank.c:479
#26 AllocatePluginDir (bank=0x7fffccfe5880, maxdepth=530368650, absdir=0x5e2f3160 <Address 0x5e2f3160 out of bounds>, reldir=0x1517c20 "plugins/text_renderer") at modules/bank.c:440
#27 0x00000031b587ad69 in AllocatePluginDir (bank=0x7fffccfe5880, maxdepth=530368650, absdir=0x5e2f3160 <Address 0x5e2f3160 out of bounds>, reldir=0x1517cc0 "plugins") at modules/bank.c:444
#28 0x00000031b587ad69 in AllocatePluginDir (bank=0x7fffccfe5880, maxdepth=530368650, maxdepth@entry=5, absdir=0x5e2f3160 <Address 0x5e2f3160 out of bounds>, absdir@entry=0x1477e00 "/usr/lib/vlc", reldir=0x0) at modules/bank.c:444
#29 0x00000031b587aec0 in AllocatePluginPath (p_this=p_this@entry=0x1447598, path=0x1477e00 "/usr/lib/vlc", mode=mode@entry=CACHE_USE) at modules/bank.c:353
#30 0x00000031b587b4d8 in AllocateAllPlugins (p_this=0x1447598) at modules/bank.c:298
#31 module_LoadPlugins (obj=obj@entry=0x1447598) at modules/bank.c:189
#32 0x00000031b581f7a0 in libvlc_InternalInit (p_libvlc=p_libvlc@entry=0x1447598, i_argc=i_argc@entry=14, ppsz_argv=ppsz_argv@entry=0x7fffccfe5c10) at libvlc.c:247
#33 0x00000031b5407e83 in libvlc_new (argc=13, argv=<optimized out>) at core.c:59
#34 0x00007f93208a16a3 in LibVLC::init () at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.6.2/work/phonon-backend-vlc-0.6.2/src/utils/libvlc.cpp:132
#35 0x00007f9320881f87 in Phonon::VLC::Backend::Backend (this=0x143e210, parent=<optimized out>) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.6.2/work/phonon-backend-vlc-0.6.2/src/backend.cpp:82
#36 0x00007f932088271b in qt_plugin_instance () at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-vlc-0.6.2/work/phonon-backend-vlc-0.6.2/src/backend.cpp:51
#37 0x00000038f6b6383d in QPluginLoader::instance (this=this@entry=0x7fffccfe63f0) at plugin/qpluginloader.cpp:204
#38 0x00007f9320f7479c in Phonon::KdePlatformPlugin::createBackend (this=this@entry=0x137aa80, newService=...) at /var/tmp/portage/kde-base/phonon-kde-4.10.5/work/phonon-kde-4.10.5/phonon/platform_kde/kdeplatformplugin.cpp:130
#39 0x00007f9320f75191 in Phonon::KdePlatformPlugin::createBackend (this=0x137aa80) at /var/tmp/portage/kde-base/phonon-kde-4.10.5/work/phonon-kde-4.10.5/phonon/platform_kde/kdeplatformplugin.cpp:183
#40 0x00000038fea30031 in Phonon::FactoryPrivate::createBackend (this=0x13292c0) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/factory.cpp:130
#41 0x00000038fea3183f in Phonon::Factory::backend (createWhenNull=<optimized out>) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/factory.cpp:460
#42 0x00000038fea321d5 in Phonon::Factory::createAudioOutput (parent=0x1327860) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/factory.cpp:356
#43 0x00000038fea275d6 in createBackendObject (this=0x136fc20) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/audiooutput.cpp:138
#44 Phonon::AudioOutputPrivate::createBackendObject (this=0x136fc20) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/audiooutput.cpp:133
#45 0x00000038fea23add in Phonon::AudioOutputPrivate::init (this=0x136fc20, c=Phonon::MusicCategory) at /var/tmp/portage/media-libs/phonon-4.6.0-r1/work/phonon-4.6.0/phonon/audiooutput.cpp:111
#46 0x00007f93273bc82d in EngineController::initializePhonon (this=0x1360620) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/EngineController.cpp:155
#47 0x00007f9326faf845 in EngineController::qt_static_metacall (_o=0x1360620, _c=530368650, _c@entry=QMetaObject::InvokeMetaMethod, _id=1580151136, _id@entry=41, _a=0xa, _a@entry=0x7fffccfe6c60) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1_build/src/moc_EngineController.cpp:195
#48 0x00000038f6b86e17 in QMetaMethod::invoke (this=this@entry=0x7fffccfe6de0, object=object@entry=0x1360620, connectionType=connectionType@entry=Qt::DirectConnection, returnValue=..., val0=..., val1=..., val2=..., val3=..., val4=..., val5=..., val6=..., val7=..., val8=..., val9=...) at kernel/qmetaobject.cpp:1664
#49 0x00000038f6b892e4 in QMetaObject::invokeMethod (obj=obj@entry=0x1360620, member=member@entry=0x7f9327565084 "initializePhonon", type=type@entry=Qt::DirectConnection, ret=..., val0=..., val1=..., val2=..., val3=..., val4=..., val5=..., val6=..., val7=..., val8=..., val9=...) at kernel/qmetaobject.cpp:1179
#50 0x00007f93274b9afe in invokeMethod (val9=..., val8=..., val7=..., val6=..., val5=..., val4=..., val3=..., val2=..., val1=..., val0=..., type=Qt::DirectConnection, member=0x7f9327565084 "initializePhonon", obj=0x1360620) at /usr/include/qt4/QtCore/qobjectdefs.h:418
#51 Amarok::DefaultApplicationController::initEngineController (this=this@entry=0x1377280) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/statemanagement/DefaultApplicationController.cpp:89
#52 0x00007f93274b9b91 in Amarok::DefaultApplicationController::start (this=0x1377280) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/statemanagement/DefaultApplicationController.cpp:48
#53 0x00007f93273ab0a6 in App::continueInit (this=this@entry=0x7fffccfe9a80) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/App.cpp:528
#54 0x00007f93273acf17 in App::App (this=0x7fffccfe9a80) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/App.cpp:180
#55 0x0000000000409535 in main (argc=0, argv=0x7fffccfe9b00) at /var/tmp/portage/media-sound/amarok-2.7.1/work/amarok-2.7.1/src/main.cpp:327

Can't easily revert to glib-2.36.3-r1 either since -r2 was a revbump to migrate to multilib and there are other packages that depend on it.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Upgrade to glib-2.36.3-r2
2. Start amarok
3. Segmentation fault



emerge --info amarok glib
Portage 2.2.0_alpha196 (default/linux/amd64/13.0, gcc-4.7.3, glibc-2.17, 3.10.5-gentoo-r1 x86_64)
=================================================================
                         System Settings
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-3.10.5-gentoo-r1-x86_64-AMD_Phenom-tm-_II_X6_1090T_Processor-with-gentoo-2.2
KiB Mem:    16434872 total,   9102516 free
KiB Swap:    4194300 total,   4194300 free
Timestamp of tree: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 09:00:01 +0000
ld GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.23.1
ccache version 3.1.9 [enabled]
app-shells/bash:          4.2_p45
dev-java/java-config:     2.2.0
dev-lang/python:          2.7.5-r1, 3.2.5-r1, 3.3.2-r1
dev-util/ccache:          3.1.9
dev-util/cmake:           2.8.11.1
dev-util/pkgconfig:       0.28
sys-apps/baselayout:      2.2
sys-apps/openrc:          0.11.8
sys-apps/sandbox:         2.6-r1
sys-devel/autoconf:       2.13, 2.69
sys-devel/automake:       1.11.6, 1.12.6, 1.14
sys-devel/binutils:       2.23.1
sys-devel/gcc:            4.7.3, 4.8.1
sys-devel/gcc-config:     1.8
sys-devel/libtool:        2.4.2
sys-devel/make:           3.82-r4
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 3.9 (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc:           2.17
Repositories: gentoo own_overlay proaudio
Installed sets: @kdebase, @system
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64 ~amd64"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="* -@EULA"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -ggdb"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/config /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt /var/lib/hsqldb"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/php/apache2-php5.5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5.5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5.5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c"
CXXFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe -ggdb"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="-va --with-bdeps=y --quiet-build=y"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs ccache compressdebug config-protect-if-modified distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles merge-sync news parallel-fetch preserve-libs protect-owned sandbox sfperms splitdebug strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv usersandbox usersync"
FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="ftp://mirror.netcologne.de/gentoo/ http://de-mirror.org/distro/gentoo/ http://mirror.leaseweb.com/gentoo/ http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/os/linux/gentoo"
LANG="en_GB.UTF8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
MAKEOPTS="-j6"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage /var/lib/layman/pro-audio"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="3dnow X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 apm bash-completion berkdb bzip2 cairo caps cdda cdparanoia cli cracklib crypt css cxx dbus djvu dri dts dv dvd encode exif ffmpeg fftw flac fortran ftp gcj gdbm gif gimp glut gnutls gphoto2 gpm hddtemp iconv icq icu ieee1394 imagemagick imap ipv6 jack java java6 javascript jit jpeg kde ladspa lame latex libedit libnotify libsamplerate lm_sensors lua lzma lzo mad matroska mime mmx modules mp3 mpeg mplayer mudflap multilib musepack ncurses nls nptl nsplugin offensive ogg openal openexr opengl openmp oscar pam pcre pdf perl php png policykit python qt4 quicktime readline samba sdl semantic-desktop session smp sndfile source sse sse2 sse3 ssl subversion svg syslog taglib tcpd theora threads tiff timidity truetype udev unicode usb v4l vcd vim-syntax vorbis wavpack wxwindows x264 xcomposite xine xinerama xml xscreensaver xv xvid zlib" ABI_X86="64" ALSA_CARDS="hda-intel" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan sheets stage tables krita karbon braindump author" CAMERAS="ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" LIBREOFFICE_EXTENSIONS="presenter-console presenter-minimizer" LINGUAS="en" OFFICE_IMPLEMENTATION="libreoffice" PHP_TARGETS="php5-4" PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET="python2_7" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 python3_2" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby20" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="radeon" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, INSTALL_MASK, LC_ALL, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, USE_PYTHON

=================================================================
                        Package Settings
=================================================================

media-sound/amarok-2.7.1 was built with the following:
USE="cdda lastfm opengl utils (-aqua) -daap -debug -embedded -ipod -mp3tunes -mtp -ofa -test" LINGUAS="-bs -ca -ca@valencia -cs -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et -eu -fi -fr -ga -gl -hu -it -ja -lt -lv -nb -nl -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ru -sl -sr -sr@ijekavian -sr@ijekavianlatin -sr@latin -sv -uk -zh_CN -zh_TW"


dev-libs/glib-2.36.3-r2 was built with the following:
USE="-debug (-fam) (-selinux) -static-libs -systemtap -test -utils -xattr" ABI_X86="64 -32 -x32" PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7 -python2_5 -python2_6"
Comment 1 Franz Trischberger 2013-08-12 13:27:54 UTC
should be this issue:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405173
Comment 2 Sebastian Rose 2013-08-12 15:11:48 UTC
(In reply to Franz Fellner from comment #1)
> should be this issue:
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405173

It is. Thanks. I've marked this one as duplicate of 405173.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 405173 ***
Comment 3 Sebastian Rose 2013-08-12 16:05:07 UTC
Hmm looks like I have to revise my diagnosis. The suggestions from Bug 405173 do only partially help. Specifically:

Rebuilding qtcore and qtgui without the "glib" USE flag does help, Amarok no longer crashes on startup. However, as soon as I rebuild them with the "glib" USE flag (and I have to, since other packages depend on it), Amarok segfaults again at startup.
Comment 4 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto (RETIRED) Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev 2013-08-12 16:22:04 UTC
I strongly suspect your issue is with vlc and not amarok itself.
Are you using the default vlc back end for phonon? If so, try rebuilding Qt without the glib use flag and then rebuild vlc.
Comment 5 Sebastian Rose 2013-08-12 17:22:08 UTC
Hm, you're right as I'm using the phonon-vlc backend for Amarok. However the procedure suggested in Bug 405173 didn't help.
I did:

# USE="$USE -glib" emerge -1O qtcore qtgui vlc phonon-vlc

(Build order was the same as specified in the command above)

After that, Amarok starts without segfaulting (in line with my previous observation that qtcore and qtgui without the glib USE flag permit Amarok to start). However if I rebuild qtcore and qtgui with the glib USE flag and try to start Amarok, it segfaults again (with the same backtrace behaviour as in the intitial post).
Comment 6 Stefan Fuchs 2013-08-16 23:35:43 UTC
There is regression in KDE 4.11 that causes Amarok 4.7 to crash. Amarok 2.8 works around it: https://plus.google.com/102602725322221030250/posts/KrLL3LkeEfW
Comment 7 Stefan Fuchs 2013-08-17 05:20:13 UTC
I just emerged Amarok 2.8 from the KDE overlay and it works.
Comment 8 David Kredba 2013-08-17 09:06:01 UTC
Amarok 2.8 is released now: Amarok 2.8 "Return To The Origin" released
Submitted by The Amarok Team on August 16, 2013 - 20:12
Comment 9 Graham Murray 2013-08-18 19:20:02 UTC
(In reply to Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto from comment #4)
> I strongly suspect your issue is with vlc and not amarok itself.
> Are you using the default vlc back end for phonon? If so, try rebuilding Qt
> without the glib use flag and then rebuild vlc.

amarok-2.8.0 also crashes at startup. My phonon backend is set to gstreamer not vlc, and vlc works for me.
Comment 10 Pavel Volkov 2013-08-19 05:13:59 UTC
Amarok 2.8 runs but outputs a message "Download of charts seems to have failed" at start.
Comment 11 Michael Palimaka (kensington) gentoo-dev 2013-08-25 16:31:41 UTC
Those people that are still having issues, are you using KDE 4.11? If so, can you please test with kdelibs-4.11.0-r1?
Comment 12 Alexandre Rostovtsev (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2013-09-02 18:32:12 UTC
Please check if updating to glib-2.36.4-r1 fixes the problem.
Comment 13 Sebastian Rose 2013-09-27 08:03:03 UTC
I can confirm that the problem does not manifest itself, at least for me. Thanks!