Hello, reading http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/sunrise/ I am getting an impression that the Sunrise overlay is meant to be for Gentoo something like AUR is meant for Arch Linux, for example. So, let's get an inspiration from our Arch colleagues and put a link to the project at some easily spottable place on the Gentoo homepage. Right now, it is even missing from the project listing at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/index.xml?showlevel=2 (!) I hope this step would help to concentrate user/occasional contributor efforts, thus improving the efficiency. Of course, more pro-active attitude than just adding a link would be welcome. Reproducible: Always
not infra, moving to pr.
Could you explain a little more what the AUR thing is? Most of us haven't used Arch.
(In reply to comment #2) > Could you explain a little more what the AUR thing is? Most of us haven't > used Arch. I do not use Arch too, so this is what I got from the rumours: ArchLinux User-community Repository (AUR) is a place where users can submit their homebrew packages, so that the others can benefit from their work and do not have to reinvent the wheel there is some system of quality rating, and the best and most wanted packages can eventually make it directly into the main ("official") repositories this has the advantage that the users know, where to look for "unstable" packages and where to put their submissions, a simple single place bringing many fruits of the cooperation the situation is not so clear in Gentoo ... go to homepage, then try to look around to find where to put the user contributed ebuilds (and so where to look for them): you end up with the path Documentation:Home => Gentoo Development Documentation => Contributing Ebuilds ... and then you learn that you have to put them into the Bugzilla this is really not a convenient place to maintain packages - the users have to watch the bug for changes, manually copy the updated version, patches etc., do ebuild digests ... much more better is the overlay approach - but then, it is even harder to find which overlays contain the package (if any, if the package is not maintained in bugzilla), and various overlays may collide (I mean package conflicts) and duplicate the efforts looking at some of the Sunrise project goals - * provide a central home for contributed ebuilds" * get users to contribute their ebuilds to "gentoo" instead of a third-party overlay - this is exactly what would remedy the situation, IMHO, and so it deserves more promotion p.s. sorry for late response, it somehow slipped through my inbox
Given we're approaching the 6000th commit, I plan to have some announcement anyway. Though what else can you think of for "promoting" it?
(In reply to comment #4) > Though what else can you think of for "promoting" it? the homepage says "Project Sunrise" and it is under http://www.gentoo.org/proj/... - so if this is a Gentoo Project, please at least list it as a Project at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/sunrise/ some other ideas: * put a link onto homepage ("Resources" section would be fine) * mention it within the Handbook, Installing Gentoo chapter 12. Where to go from here, and/or create appropriate chapter within Working with Gentoo or Working with Portage (btw, section 5. Diverting from the Official Tree should be expanded to incorporate the layman stuff) * change the guide Contributing Ebuilds so that people know they can do more than just filing a bug; specifically (from http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/sunrise/wiki/HowToCommit) "You need a bug for every ebuild. ... Post your ebuild in #gentoo-sunrise and/or #gentoo-dev-help for review." - I am not talking about duplicating this HowTo, just to mention that there is the possibility to push the ebuild into this overlay
We (GDP) don't document any unstable software in the handbook (and in most of our other docs). Not mentioning software that is not even in any offical Gentoo repository. For me, from GDP policy point of view, it's WONTFIX. Of course PR may promote in any way they deem necessary. Maybe GMN could have an article plus some interviews about 6k commits?
(In reply to comment #6) > We (GDP) don't document any unstable software in the handbook (and in most > of our other docs). Not mentioning software that is not even in any offical > Gentoo repository. the point is not in documenting the unstable software, but documenting the way users can collaborate, which is officially supported by Gentoo (if I get the project page right) the abovementioned chapter "Diverting from the Official Tree" talks about setting up user repository, why not mention also layman (which _is_ in the official tree) and then some general info about the overlays (link to the list etc)? > Maybe GMN could have an article plus some interviews about 6k commits? I think something more permanent than newsletter article is needed ...
(In reply to comment #6) > For me, from GDP policy point of view, it's WONTFIX. OTOH if the recommended way for submitting ebuilds for new packages is putting them to the sunrise overlay (is it?), we should change to docs no matter what we think about the quality of the overlay in question.
Okay. We can add it to ebuild-submit but handbook is a no-go. And my personal opinion about Sunrise is very positive, probably far more positive that what many folks around here think about it. Doesn't mean we should add it to the handbook.
no, the way to get ebuilds into the tree is not through sunrise. it's through bugzilla like it's always been.
(In reply to comment #10) > no, the way to get ebuilds into the tree is not through sunrise. it's through > bugzilla like it's always been. Hmm. Then there's nothing the GDP can do to docs in /doc/en/; everything else will be up to individual projects who want to mention sunrise. Un-CCing us.
one last consideration please, then i'll leave it be ;) while i personally dislike sunrise, i think it (and many other things?) could get a blurb in the "Beyond" section of the handbook: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=12
(In reply to comment #12) > one last consideration please, then i'll leave it be ;) > > while i personally dislike sunrise, i think it (and many other things?) could > get a blurb in the "Beyond" section of the handbook: > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=12 Not in the handbook, as the other GDP members have said. Definitely not there. The last thing we should even hint to brand new Gentoo users is breaking their brand new installed systems with ebuilds from Sunrise. Talking about Sunrise in the handbook strikes me as irresponsible, rather like linking to and talking about the wiki. Some of it may be okay, but how do you separate out what's crap and what's good? Same problems apply to both resources. I'd be all for mentioning Sunrise and the wiki as parts of the community (Exciting Community Stuff!) if only there was more overall QA.
(In reply to comment #13) > Not in the handbook, as the other GDP members have said. Definitely not there. > The last thing we should even hint to brand new Gentoo users is breaking their > brand new installed systems with ebuilds from Sunrise. > > Talking about Sunrise in the handbook strikes me as irresponsible, rather like > linking to and talking about the wiki. Some of it may be okay, but how do you > separate out what's crap and what's good? Same problems apply to both > resources. > > I'd be all for mentioning Sunrise and the wiki as parts of the community > (Exciting Community Stuff!) if only there was more overall QA. I'm just re-adding you, Josh, because I think there's an important difference between the wiki and Sunrise that you may not realize. All of the ebuilds that make it into the main sunrise overlay have been reviewed by Gentoo developers, so there is a QA distinction. Take a look at http://overlays.gentoo.org/proj/sunrise
perhaps this is just a subset of a larger issue. the left banner on our front page should split the "Resources" section up into a "Contribute". then we can add "Overlays" as a subitem and sunrise will be on that page. then the handbook in it's "Beyond" section can refer to the "Contribute" stuff (as it already does in a subset: mailing lists / irc / forums).
Our home page needs a fair bit of reworking. The "how to contribute" section is a major thing that needs to show up, and the whole thing needs tweaking to cater to the various audiences and reasons people go there.
There'll be a user-submitted article in the upcoming May 2008 GMN for this.
(In reply to comment #16) > Our home page needs a fair bit of reworking. The "how to contribute" section is > a major thing that needs to show up, and the whole thing needs tweaking to > cater to the various audiences and reasons people go there. > Anyone working on this? Or is there something, people without much knowledge could do to help with this topic?
(In reply to comment #18) > Anyone working on this? No, unfortunately. > Or is there something, people without much knowledge > could do to help with this topic? Not really. What ought to happen is that a web-dev person picks up http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-projects/www-redesign/ and finishes it.
Individual projects already mention Sunrise, layman, and their on personal overlays. Folks posting to Planet/Universe do, as well. Until there's a concerted website push, it looks like there's not much else we can do.
