Now that everyone is being forced to move to modular xorg because of the HIGH security risk , could someone with the necessary competances review the official migraton guide? http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/modular-x-howto.xml I am just reading through it and see a number of inconsistancies and things that are clearly now out of date. The support thread (part2) is already at page 21!! A lot of these 'annoyances' to use the polite term could be avoided by rigourous doc (assuming it is read by a few of us.) I have not gone through it all yet but just one o.o.d. that I spotted: >> Note: Only do this if there is a specific reason you need 7.1 rather than 7.0. Other packages that may require package.keywords for stable users >=sys-apps/portage-2.1_pre4 =sys-apps/man-1.6b-r2 app-admin/eselect-opengl >=app-admin/eselect-1.0_rc1 media-video/nvidia-kernel media-video/nvidia-glx >> the latter two are marked for removal! I imagine there are several irregularities that I may only find later when X no longer works and I have to browser the forums with linx. This is not a trivail update so ensuring the doc is kept abreast of the many changes would save a lot of wasted time in the user base. many thanks.
reassigning to x11, since this is not a security issue
Well it is in fact. Because many systems will not yet be migrated and there is a high security alert where the only solution proposed on Gentoo is to do this upgrade. It just took me about 24hrs to complete the transfer which is not is not a trivial "emerge xorg-x11". I was both helped and hindered by that doc. which is clearly about 6 months out of date. We should not have to spend 24h scouring for doc posts and howtos to resolve an important security issue like this. Until all Gentoo systems are updated remains a security issue. If the available doc is badly out of sync with what needs to be done that prolongs the security issue. I'm happy with reassigning the bug but could it get some urgent attention which the risk dictates. thx
(In reply to comment #0) > I am just reading through it and see a number of inconsistancies and things > that are clearly now out of date. Such as? > Note: Only do this if there is a specific reason you need 7.1 rather than 7.0. > Other packages that may require package.keywords for stable users > >=sys-apps/portage-2.1_pre4 > =sys-apps/man-1.6b-r2 > app-admin/eselect-opengl > >=app-admin/eselect-1.0_rc1 > media-video/nvidia-kernel > media-video/nvidia-glx > >> > > > the latter two are marked for removal! This is actually perfectly up to date, as the x11-drivers/nvidia* packages are still ~arch. The guide is intended for a stable system.
To avoid further confusion, I'm removing that section altogether.
>>This is actually perfectly up to date, as the x11-drivers/nvidia* packages are >>still ~arch. The guide is intended for a stable system. Are you sure?? * x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers : [ ~ ] 1.0.8762 (0) [ ] 1.0.8762-r1 (0) [ ~I] 1.0.8774 (0) * media-video/nvidia-glx : [M ] 1.0.6111-r3 (0) [M ] 1.0.6629-r7 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7167-r3 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7174-r5 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7667-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7676-r2 (0) OVERLAY [M~ ] 1.0.7676-r3 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8174-r2 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8178-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8756 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8762 (0) * media-video/nvidia-kernel : [M ] 1.0.6111-r3 (0) [M ] 1.0.6111-r4 (0) [M ] 1.0.6629-r1 (0) OVERLAY [M ] 1.0.6629-r5 (0) [M ] 1.0.6629-r6 (0) OVERLAY [M~ ] 1.0.7167-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7167-r2 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7174-r2 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7174-r3 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7667 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7667-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.7676-r1 (0) OVERLAY [M~ ] 1.0.7676-r2 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8174-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8174-r2 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8178-r3 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8178-r4 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8756 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8756-r1 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8762 (0) [M~ ] 1.0.8762-r1 (0) These are now all hardmasked and due for deletion . This has been forced ahead as a result of the security issue if you read the changelog. Hell you wrote the changelog and modded the ebuilds didn't you?! The other packages that were listed no longer needed unmasking as the guide suggested when I posted this morning. So that was all badly out of date as I said. Thanks for fixing but please dont post back like I am talking rubbish and all this was fine the way it was. >>Such as? well I went through this several times before even starting to update. I made notes of anything that I may need to look at and found that most of them no longer applied. A couple you may want to review: 'emerge -u world' wants to install xorg-x11 6.x or virtual/x11 This is because the tree isn't fixed for modular dependencies yet. You can help the porting effort by reading the Porting to Modular X HOWTO and filing bugs with patches to the individual package maintainers. The maintainers will be listed in metadata.xml in the same directory as the package and the herdstat package will speed up querying for them. Change the following from this: ! The following three resources set up display :0 as the console. DisplayManager._0.setup: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 DisplayManager._0.startup: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/GiveConsole DisplayManager._0.reset: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/TakeConsole Those I noticed, you are closer to all this and must know better than I what needs noting or changing. Saying this is only intended for stable Gentoo is an admission itself. _EVERYONE_ now needs to go through this urgently. If you think it does not apply to unstable please add information that does apply , it is necessary. I found the nvidia setup guide covered the nvidia-drivers differences very clearly. It may be worth copying the relevant parts here or at the least linking to that page with a comment to that effect. Thanks for giving this some time. I think a lot of users will be needing this right now.
(In reply to comment #5) > These are now all hardmasked and due for deletion . This has been forced ahead > as a result of the security issue if you read the changelog. Hell you wrote the > changelog and modded the ebuilds didn't you?! No, actually -- I did not. I don't touch the binary drivers, that's another group of people entirely. It appears that I missed that a single ebuild was marked stable, you could be a bit more courteous about it. # Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> (12 Sep 2006) # These are being removed in favor of the x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers and # x11-drivers/nvidia-legacy-drivers. There should be no reason why you are # still using these drivers. Everyone should migrate to the new driver set. # This is masked for removal and will be removed on Septermber 29th. media-video/nvidia-glx media-video/nvidia-kernel Looks like the legacy drivers haven't been marked stable yet on amd64, that's a bug and is probably the reason I missed this to begin with. > 'emerge -u world' wants to install xorg-x11 6.x or virtual/x11 > > This is because the tree isn't fixed for modular dependencies yet. You can help > the porting effort by reading the Porting to Modular X HOWTO and filing bugs > with patches to the individual package maintainers. The maintainers will be > listed in metadata.xml in the same directory as the package and the herdstat > package will speed up querying for them. This should still be current. AFAICT, the unported packages remain in the hundreds although most of them are rarely used and nobody cares enough to fix them. > Change the following from this: > > ! The following three resources set up display :0 as the console. > DisplayManager._0.setup: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 > DisplayManager._0.startup: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/GiveConsole > DisplayManager._0.reset: /usr/lib/X11/xdm/TakeConsole > > Those I noticed, you are closer to all this and must know better than I what > needs noting or changing. Could you point out the problem here? > Saying this is only intended for stable Gentoo is an admission itself. > _EVERYONE_ now needs to go through this urgently. It wouldn't be so urgent if people had upgraded during the 2 1/2 month window since modular X went stable ... this "everyone" actually seems to mean "the few people still hanging back on monolithic X." > I found the nvidia setup guide covered the nvidia-drivers differences very > clearly. It may be worth copying the relevant parts here or at the least > linking to that page with a comment to that effect. Where should I mention this? Does it still make sense with the section on using ~arch removed?
>>Could you point out the problem here? like I said , I made notes based on the howto and found a lot of it no longer applied. That was one. It was already done, so it no longer applied. I suggested you look at it. If you still feel it is still relevant is some cases, fine. All I suggest in any of this is that it is reviewed by someone with the knowlege to bring it upto to date. That seems to be you. I'm not here to argue about the details. If you think it's correct leave it. >>Where should I mention this? Does it still make sense with the section on >>using ~arch removed? Your hardmasking all monolithic xorg brought this security issue to my attention. Thanks for that, I would not have been aware if you had not. once I had taken off my mask on >0.6.8 I got all sorts of blockages including the drivers. This will happen to others since there are very few compatible versions. This maybe merits a new note and a link. This will come up for a lot of nvidia users. >>this "everyone" actually seems to mean "the few >>people still hanging back on monolithic X." well I guess there no way of guessing how few or many there are but I will say that the guide, as it stood this morning, is the sole reason why I had put this off three times since modular xorg appeared. I looked through the guide , decided it was too messy , complicated and unfinished and that I would wait until it got more sorted. I came back to it twice because it seemed like the way to go. I concluded from the guide that not much had changed to make the change over smoother. Having been forced to do it anyway, it was less complicated than the guide suggested. And some of the advice was out of date. That's why I started this bug.
(In reply to comment #7) > I suggested you look at it. If you still feel it is still relevant is some > cases, fine. All I suggest in any of this is that it is reviewed by someone > with the knowlege to bring it upto to date. That seems to be you. I'm not here > to argue about the details. If you think it's correct leave it. It looks up to date to me. Authors make terrible reviewers, because they already know everything they meant but didn't say. > once I had taken off my mask on >0.6.8 I got all sorts of blockages including > the drivers. This will happen to others since there are very few compatible > versions. This maybe merits a new note and a link. This will come up for a lot > of nvidia users. All nvidia users need to do is read the portage output (uninstall your blockers or masked packages) and set VIDEO_CARDS appropriately. > I looked through the guide , decided it was too messy , complicated and > unfinished and that I would wait until it got more sorted. I came back to it > twice because it seemed like the way to go. I concluded from the guide that not > much had changed to make the change over smoother. > > Having been forced to do it anyway, it was less complicated than the guide > suggested. And some of the advice was out of date. The guide provides for pretty much everything that could possibly go wrong. In a perfect world, it is much easier, and it is possible to figure it out without ever reading the guide.
>>It looks up to date to me. Authors make terrible reviewers, because they >>already know everything they meant but didn't say. LOL, yep like testing your own software, you'll never see the bugs others find in 2 mins. That's why I brought all this up. I dont know enough detail to rewrite it but hopefully I can point out areas you could check. Dont take it as an attack on what you did, more as a contribution to improving the doc for the community. >>All nvidia users need to do is read the portage output (uninstall your >>blockers or masked packages) and set VIDEO_CARDS appropriately. so tell them not me ;) Sounds like very good tip to add with a link to the nvidia setup that explains the changeover in detail. >>The guide provides for pretty much everything that could possibly go wrong. Do you now feel it covers ~arch ? I see no reason why ~arch should be left out in the cold. If it does only cover stable then that should be clearly marked at the top. regards.
If you could attach a patch with your suggested changes, that would be really helpful. http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/modular-x-howto.xml?rev=1.58&view=log will get you the source XML.
well if we discuss this much longer it will be academic anyway. User are migrating now because of the mask you put on monolith xorg. The guide is needed now , not in 10 days. I've pointed out areas I think need looking at but I've also said I dont consider I have enough knowlege to rewrite it, so your request does not make much sense. You say it does not cater for arch , it should. You said "nvidia user just need to...." so tell them. In the time you've spent posting here you could have added a few notes and cutt anything that no longer applies. What more do you want me to say? If you dont want to change anything dont.
I have a thousand better things to do with my time than spend it on a doc I already think is good enough. That's why I've asked you to put some time into developing a patch that I can just commit.
