User relations has decided to impose a 7 day ban on his access to the gentoo-dev mailing list. Similarly to how abusive bugs accounts are rarely suspected or de-activated, we feel that he is abusing the gentoo-dev mailing list; to the point where developers are feeling unmotivated to read it. As such, Userrel requests his access be revoked. As UserRel has no hard policy on this: 1. I have filed a bug for -infra. 2. I will wait until the ban is in place, then CC him here and send an e-mail which I will attach momentarily 3. Hopefully the seven day break will give him a chance to rethink his ideas and gain some perspective on how our system works. Enrico's e-mail address is: weigelt@metux.de Thanks
Created attachment 93802 [details] E-mail I am planning on sending
(In reply to comment #0) > User relations has decided to impose a 7 day ban on his access to the > gentoo-dev mailing list. Similarly to how abusive bugs accounts are rarely > suspected or de-activated, we feel that he is abusing the gentoo-dev mailing Suspended..not suspected ;)
userrel++ I wondered why everyone remained so calm. - list the + list, the - seven(7) + seven (7) References in the text are usually held in order, no!?
| we feel that he is abusing the gentoo-dev mailing | list; to the point where developers are feeling unmotivated to read it. If devs still reply to it on list and on topic, i can't see the abuse of the mailing list. Why do they feed him if they are unmotivated? If you mean that others are getting unmotivated, i'd say they should learn how to deal with these situations themselves. It's useable in circumstances where banning isn't. If you think you must do something, mail him offlist and tell him what you think and what might help him dealing with the list. In general i am against banning people, it generates a lot of noise and is technically useless. I don't see the abuse in the points you mention. It's annoying or bugging (or whatever the correct word might be), yes, but i don't see the abuse.
Now that I think about it, I have to agree with tove. Not to mention that it seems to have stopped, anyway. Unless someone already banned him. :)
(In reply to comment #4) > | we feel that he is abusing the gentoo-dev mailing > | list; to the point where developers are feeling unmotivated to read it. > > If devs still reply to it on list and on topic, i can't see the abuse of the > mailing list. Why do they feed him if they are unmotivated? If you mean that Well there are generally always people around to feed a troll, the -dev mailing list is quite large. > others are getting unmotivated, i'd say they should learn how to deal with > these situations themselves. It's useable in circumstances where banning isn't. Some mailing list members have already added procmail rules for this, perhaps I will request that they post one. > If you think you must do something, mail him offlist and tell him what you > think and what might help him dealing with the list. This has been done, by multiple people; it was done publically ON the ML by stuart (which was a lovely mail btw). > > In general i am against banning people, it generates a lot of noise and is > technically useless. I never said I was for banning, but there are rare occasions when I think it could apply; bugs maintainers occasionally block accounts for short periods of time to curb people posting a large number of bugs. In the end I feel that this gentlement is not taking any of the advice given (primarily reading the docs and writing his own ebuilds) and I think a 7 day ban would give him the time to do so. > > > I don't see the abuse in the points you mention. It's annoying or bugging (or > whatever the correct word might be), yes, but i don't see the abuse. > There is annoying to a point, and then there is trolling. I would think this borders on the latter.
1) you guys need to come to some sort of agreement. right now, seems like there's a lot of differing opinions. (meanwhile, near as I can tell, he hasn't posted anything since Aug 8 anyway) 2) Did anyone from userrel attempt to contact Enrico and ask him to stop? Or were we just gonna lay in with the ban stick as the first salvo? (note that I didn't ask if a dev already tried that on the ML -- I asked if userrel contacted him privately, explained that his behavior is unacceptable and that, if he continues, he'll be banned) 3) In the 4+ years that I have been with this project, we have never, not once, banned a user from a mailing list, even temporarily. (except for people who's mailboxes went haywire and started autoresponding to list mails) 4) It's sad that we don't hold our own developers to the same standards as the (new) ones that we're apparently holding our users to.</soapbox> Anyway, 2-4 are just my personal commentary. If you guys resolve #1 and feel that he should still be banned, let us know and we'll remove him from the list.
(In reply to comment #7) > 1) you guys need to come to some sort of agreement. right now, seems like > there's a lot of differing opinions. (meanwhile, near as I can tell, he hasn't > posted anything since Aug 8 anyway) > > 2) Did anyone from userrel attempt to contact Enrico and ask him to stop? Or > were we just gonna lay in with the ban stick as the first salvo? (note that I > didn't ask if a dev already tried that on the ML -- I asked if userrel > contacted him privately, explained that his behavior is unacceptable and that, > if he continues, he'll be banned) I don't think userrel itself sent anything, although I know some individuals in the project send private e-mails. > > 3) In the 4+ years that I have been with this project, we have never, not once, > banned a user from a mailing list, even temporarily. (except for people who's > mailboxes went haywire and started autoresponding to list mails) While I'm glad that is the case, it is not really a reason against starting now. There is a first time for everything, even this. > > 4) It's sad that we don't hold our own developers to the same standards as the > (new) ones that we're apparently holding our users to.</soapbox> Would you like me to file bugs every time I feel a developer steps out of line on -dev? Because I don't think you want me to. I actually send e-mails to developers when I feel they are being assholes on dev; although I think if I called for a ban on them for seven days there would be more backlash then asking to ban some annoying guy that has no representation. > > > Anyway, 2-4 are just my personal commentary. If you guys resolve #1 and feel > that he should still be banned, let us know and we'll remove him from the list. > A bunch of developers felt that action was necessary, so I inquired with userrel and infra as to what they thought at the time and I took some. It obviously isn't necessary now as he hasn't posted anything since. Perhaps one of the mails sent to him finally got the message across, perhaps someone sent him a mail with a link to this bug; I really don't know. Resolving since he hasn't sent mail anyhow.
(In reply to comment #7) > 1) you guys need to come to some sort of agreement. right now, seems like > there's a lot of differing opinions. (meanwhile, near as I can tell, he hasn't > posted anything since Aug 8 anyway) I personally believe that the bug can be resolved as Enrico appear to have stopped after recieving messages explaining the situation and requesting he rethink off list. > 2) Did anyone from userrel attempt to contact Enrico and ask him to stop? Or > were we just gonna lay in with the ban stick as the first salvo? (note that I > didn't ask if a dev already tried that on the ML -- I asked if userrel > contacted him privately, explained that his behavior is unacceptable and that, > if he continues, he'll be banned) He has been contacted privately by several members of the project yes, of which he appeared to ignore to start with and thus we asked for guideance on how to proceed, and as there was a Etiquette Enforcement Policy RFC stating that you had discovered a way of imposing temporary bans on the MLs, that combined with how we generally do it if needing to have someone disabled from Bugzilla suggested that this was the correct way to go about it, and had it continued I believe that a cool-down phase could have been beneficial to all involved. > 3) In the 4+ years that I have been with this project, we have never, not once, > banned a user from a mailing list, even temporarily. (except for people who's > mailboxes went haywire and started autoresponding to list mails) Nod. Although I am glad to hear that it's never happened in the past I don't necessarily agree that it could never be a option of resolve for when we do have problems on a list. > 4) It's sad that we don't hold our own developers to the same standards as the > (new) ones that we're apparently holding our users to.</soapbox> Personally I believe we should expect higher standards for our devs than our users, however, there was no complaints about any devs in this instance and thus that's rather irrelevant. > Anyway, 2-4 are just my personal commentary. If you guys resolve #1 and feel > that he should still be banned, let us know and we'll remove him from the list. I second antarus' decision to resolve, and we can come back and rethink should it become an issue again.
