Likely a dup of bug 108349, but I don't have access. Two log segments, one likely familiar, another which is newer. #gentoo-dev - Friday October 7, 2005, times in GMT: 04:24:07<@Cardoe> agaffney: fix my system 04:24:13<@Cardoe> be like MTV 04:24:16<@Cardoe> and pimp my ride 04:24:35<@agaffney> Cardoe: what did you break? :) 04:24:39-!- luke-jr_ [n=luke-jr@user-0c938qu.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #gentoo-dev 04:25:05<@Cardoe> It's not broken 04:25:08<@Cardoe> just Gentoo doesn't work right 04:25:14<@Cardoe> Gentoo's already killed 1 laptop of mine 04:25:25<@Cardoe> I keep them running at the LOWEST possible speed 04:25:32<@Cardoe> and I keep a handful of programs opened 04:25:45<@Cardoe> Today... I was gone from 4pm until 12:15am 04:25:53<@Cardoe> So about 8 hrs 04:26:36<@Cardoe> I left X-Chat, Thunderbird, Firefox (with Slashdot, Wikipedia, and another MediaWiki page), 3 gnome-terminals opened. 04:26:38<@Cardoe> That's it 04:26:42<@Cardoe> across all my desktops. 04:27:00<@Cardoe> the laptop is so hot it's nearly impossible to touch 04:27:19<@agaffney> so get ACPI or whatever the hell you need working :P 04:27:28<@r2d2> I don't see how it's gentoo's fault 04:27:45<@r2d2> as gentoo isn't exactly something that's actively running 04:28:03<@r2d2> kernel kernel kernel... 04:28:03<@Battousai> it's always gentoo's fault 04:28:05<@Battousai> duh 04:28:25<@Cardoe> r2d2: go through my kernel config and fix it then 04:28:37<@Battousai> pwned 04:28:46<@Cardoe> if it's the kernel 04:29:16<@Cardoe> And the other annoying thing 04:29:20<@r2d2> that's the spirit ... "why don't you fix it for me" 04:29:26<@Cardoe> If I don't use "emerge" for long periods of time... 04:29:32<@Cardoe> r2d2: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT 04:29:34<@r2d2> cause of course, I'm the one having the problem, and it's my fault 04:29:40<@Cardoe> IF I DID THEN I WOULDN'T COMPLAIN 04:29:54<@Cardoe> JACKASS 04:30:04<@Cardoe> r2d2: you weren't helped in #-laptop 04:30:15<@Cardoe> and now you're just being the same unhelpful prick 04:30:17<@r2d2> and here I thought it was the laptop, and not the user that was hot 04:30:48<@Cardoe> fuck you r2d2 04:30:56<@Battousai> easy Cardoe 04:30:58<@Battousai> it's just irc 04:31:18-!- euronaut [n=stefan@off9-d9bb3aaf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #gentoo-dev 04:32:28<@blackace> Cardoe: language please. 04:32:42<@Cardoe> blackace: If you don't want to hear fucking language, look away. 04:32:52<@Battousai> heh 04:32:53<@r2d2> Cardoe: I apologize, sorry for not being able to fix your mysterious problem given no fact, I'll try harder next time 04:33:03<@Cardoe> r2d2: I already told you.. fuck you. 04:33:22<@Battousai> ok, i think we've seen enough of this 04:33:27-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [+o bcowan] by ChanServ 04:33:31-!- Cardoe was kicked from #gentoo-dev by blackace [check the IRC policy please, language policy here is the same as in #gentoo] 04:33:37-!- Cardoe [n=Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has joined #gentoo-dev 04:33:40-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [+o Cardoe] by ChanServ 04:33:43<@Battousai> sigh 04:33:43<@SpanKY> i'm sure that'll go over well 04:33:45<@Cardoe> blackace: you are not the police of the channel 04:33:49<@Cardoe> blackace: jackass 04:33:58<@r2d2> I guess passive-agressive apologies don't help any, my bad 04:34:00-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [-o+b blackace *!n=blackace@gentoo/developer/blackace] by Cardoe 04:34:00-!- blackace was kicked from #gentoo-dev by Cardoe [Cardoe] 04:34:12-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [-b *!n=blackace@gentoo/developer/blackace] by SpanKY 04:34:12-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [-b *!n=blackace@gentoo/developer/blackace] by r2d2 #gentoo-dev - Wednesday December 28, 2005, times in GMT: 19:35:07<@Cardoe> anyone good with procmail? 19:35:45-!- rangerpb [n=ranger@gentoo/developer/rangerpb] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:37:00<@Cardoe> Betelgeuse: ping 19:38:11<@Cardoe> Betelgeuse: are you a moron? http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/Cardoe 19:38:44-!- mjc [n=mjc@c-66-176-62-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:55<@Cardoe> !away cardoe 19:38:55<+jeeves> cardoe -> did not edit his/her devaway and or I'm malfunctioning. 19:39:14<@Halcy0n> I can feel the love. 19:39:46<@Battousai> you'll feel my love 19:39:56<@Cardoe> He pisses me off with his e-mails sometimes 19:40:16<@Halcy0n> Yea, so? 19:40:20<@Cardoe> He sent me an e-mail saying he tinkered with a package because my CVS stats show I'm inactive and I have a devaway set. 19:40:31<@Cardoe> No devaway 19:40:34<@ciaranm> Cardoe: he's canadian, what do you expect? 19:40:36<@Halcy0n> Alright, so he made a mistake, no reason to be an ass. 19:40:48<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: yes there is. 19:40:53<@Cardoe> ciaranm: well that explainsa lot. 19:40:59<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: if you knew the background 19:41:25<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: It was to brad? 19:41:57<@Halcy0n> !away brad 19:41:58<+jeeves> brad -> did not edit his/her devaway and or I'm malfunctioning. 19:42:09<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: I don't see your name in ndiswrapper metadata.xml 19:43:13<@Betelgeuse> ciaranm: Since when am I canadian? 19:43:35<@ciaranm> Betelgeuse: you're not canadian? hrm, someone whose nick starts with a b is canadian 19:43:42<@ciaranm> Betelgeuse: ok, you have no excuse 19:43:44<@Halcy0n> ciaranm: brad 19:44:09-!- nelchael [n=nelchael@gentoo/developer/nelchael] has joined #gentoo-dev 19:44:12-!- mode/#gentoo-dev [+o nelchael] by ChanServ 19:44:24<@Betelgeuse> ciaranm: I do live norther than most Canadians. 19:44:24<@nelchael> !herd x11 19:44:26<+jeeves> nelchael: (x11) azarah, battousai, eradicator, joshuabaergen, lu_zero, seemant, spyderous 19:44:34<@Halcy0n> !seen s4t4n 19:44:34<+glbt> s4t4n (n=s4t4n@83.225.26.54) was last seen quitting from #gentoo-dev 55 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes ago stating (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:44:35<+GenBot1> s4t4n was last seen 11 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 21 minutes and 25 seconds ago, changing nick to s4t4n|work. 19:44:37<@nelchael> ping ^^^ 19:44:42<@Battousai> nelchael: what 19:44:47<@Battousai> speak, peasant 19:44:51 * Battousai runs 19:44:55<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: ndiswrapper-1.4.ebuild: 19:44:56<@Betelgeuse> maintainership over to brad since I haven't had the hardware for ages 19:45:07<@Cardoe> There ya go 19:45:23<@nelchael> Battousai: i've got this bug: 113951 - IMHO it's driver related 19:45:40<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: I don't see a problem here? 19:46:10<@slarti> !seen robbat2 19:46:10<+glbt> robbat2 (n=robbat2@gentoo/developer/robbat2) was last seen quitting from #gentoo-dev 1 hour, 16 minutes ago stating (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:46:11 * nelchael digs out old Warcraft sound "Yes master?" 19:46:15<+GenBot1> robbat2 was last seen 1 week, 6 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying 'l8r' in #gentoo-dev. 19:46:23-!- orangeje1lo [n=arl@acm.poly.edu] has joined #gentoo-dev 19:46:32<@nelchael> !herd desktop-wm 19:46:32<+jeeves> nelchael: (desktop-wm) bcowan, usata 19:46:41<@nelchael> !seen bcowan 19:46:42<+glbt> bcowan (n=bcowan@dpc69190001.direcpc.com) was last seen quitting from #gentoo-commits 45 days, 13 hours, 6 minutes ago stating ({"leaving"}). 19:46:42<+GenBot1> bcowan was last seen 6 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 10 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying 'hi all' in #gentoo. 19:46:46<@nelchael> !seen usata 19:46:46<+glbt> nelchael, I don't remember seeing usata. 19:46:47<+GenBot1> usata was last seen 16 weeks, 3 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes and 56 seconds ago, changing nick to usataway. 19:46:53<@nelchael> argh... 19:46:59<@Halcy0n> !herd desktop-misc 19:47:00<+jeeves> Halcy0n: (desktop-misc) nelchael, pYrania, smithj 19:47:19<@Halcy0n> nelchael: good, bug #111321 Any problems with me fixing it? 19:47:23<@nelchael> Halcy0n: what's up? 19:47:24<+GenBot1> Halcy0n: Bug 111321; "xfe 0.84 fails to compile with gcc-4.0.2-r1"; [Gentoo Linux :: GCC Porting]; {NEW}; ->301 bytes; http://bugs.gentoo.org/111321 19:47:31<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: You might want to check To: and CC: next time. 19:47:37<@Battousai> nelchael: so you're using monolithic xorg still? 19:47:45<@Halcy0n> Betelgeuse: but that would require....not being an ass. 19:48:03<@nelchael> Halcy0n: no problems, go for it :) 19:48:07<@Halcy0n> nelchael: thanks. 19:48:30<@nelchael> Battousai: and.... does it matter? it WORKSFORME, looks like related to some SiS chips 19:49:00-!- orangejello [n=arl@acm.poly.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:49:01<@Battousai> nelchael: well it would matter if it were fixed in newer versions, wouldn't it?19:49:20<@ciaranm> did Cardoe strangely just vanish? 19:49:26<@Battousai> nelchael: it probably is driver-related 19:49:27<@Halcy0n> I think he realized he got owned. 19:49:38<@Battousai> i believe the technical term is pwned 19:49:48<@nelchael> Battousai: the bug links to blog post where the same thing is happening on freebsd and same hardware 19:49:49<@Cardoe> ciaranm: no 19:49:59<@Cardoe> I was putting stuff on the stove. 19:50:18<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: so I'm an ass. oh well.
why is the bug closed ? also, do you have a more complete log from the first bit
Created attachment 75686 [details] Oct 07, 2005 I'm not sure why the bug is closed, I haven't even seen it. Attached is a larger block of log from the first bit. Below is the conversation he referred to in #gentoo-laptop, same day: 03:32:12-!- Sean [n=asdf@adsl-154-224-240.jax.bellsouth.net] has joined #gentoo-laptop 03:32:42< Sean> is anyone here alive? 03:33:16-!- Sean is now known as Dymd3z 03:33:43<@r2d2> it seems I'm all out of clever retorts to that kind of question 03:34:10< Dymd3z> heh 03:34:18< Dymd3z> umm i have a question 03:34:19< calculus> i am kinda dead 03:34:36< Dymd3z> fisrt off im new to this 03:34:44< Dymd3z> so please don't take to to hard on me 03:34:48<@r2d2> rule 1: don't ask to ask. just ask 03:35:09< Dymd3z> okay. what's the main difference between gentoo linux and windows? 03:35:22< calculus> Dymd3z: umm.. lots 03:35:33< calculus> Dymd3z: have you ever worked with linux before? 03:35:36<@r2d2> Dymd3z: do you know anything about linux? 03:35:36< Dymd3z> no 03:35:46< Dymd3z> no 03:35:51< Dymd3z> lol 03:36:00<@r2d2> better to learn about a little about linux, then the specifics like gentoo 03:36:17< Dymd3z> Well thats what im trying to do 03:36:24< Dymd3z> do you just install it? 03:36:26< calculus> well GNU/Linux is an operating system in the same way Windows or Mac OS is an operating system 03:36:44<@r2d2> http://www.linux.org/info/index.html 03:37:23< Dymd3z> well ive seen so many cool screenshots from linux users and they look so cool 03:37:40< Dymd3z> sorry for bad grammer 03:37:42< calculus> don't expect all your games or applications that work on windows to work on linux 03:38:17< Dymd3z> would winamp work? 03:38:21<@r2d2> no 03:38:23< Dymd3z> or somethin similar? 03:38:27< calculus> in many cases there are programs that work on linux that have the same functionality as that app on windows 03:38:27<@r2d2> but there are other programs 03:38:33< calculus> (many others) 03:38:38<@r2d2> windows programs do not (generally) run in linux 03:39:26< Dymd3z> is linux extremly complicated or is it something that anyone could get use to? 03:39:27< calculus> the 'win' in winamp is for windows 03:39:51<@r2d2> Dymd3z: gentoo's not the best if you want things to Just Work 03:40:56< Dymd3z> Are both of you on gentoo, r2d2 and calculus? 03:41:15<@r2d2> my server is, my laptop these days is a mac 03:41:49< calculus> my server at home is, my laptop is, and soon my desktop will be (currently mepis) 03:42:24< Dymd3z> well i have a HP Laptop and im interested in putting linux on it 03:42:28<@r2d2> Dymd3z: did you read that link I pasted? 03:42:29< Dymd3z> that's really about all i know lol 03:42:37< Dymd3z> yes im currently reading now 03:44:58< Dymd3z> So you basically have to burn a cd? 03:46:17<@r2d2> well, you need to install it, which is akin to installing windows 03:46:37<@r2d2> boot, partition, format, install, etc 03:46:46< Dymd3z> wow 03:46:55< Dymd3z> there are so many different versions 03:47:04 * calculus nods 03:48:04< Dymd3z> http://www.colinux.org/ 03:48:21<@r2d2> yes, linux within windows 03:49:18< calculus> heh, latexer and i met one of the maintainers of colinux 03:49:34< Dymd3z> but wouldn't something like that completly, just take up alot of memory? 03:50:11<@r2d2> well, the linux part certainly won't have access to as much memory as if you had booted it natively 03:50:31< Dymd3z> oh 03:51:05< Dymd3z> so it's basically windows and linux in one computer 03:51:19<@r2d2> more like windows and linux at the same time 03:51:32<@r2d2> you can have them both installed, and just dual boot 03:51:48< Dymd3z> and you could run windows programs and linux programs consecutivly 03:51:49< Dymd3z> ? 03:51:56<@r2d2> with colinux, yes 03:52:19< Dymd3z> would you be able to change the linux "skin" ( i guess you would call it ) 03:52:43< calculus> do you mean themes, wallpapers, and icons? 03:52:44<@r2d2> well, linux itself is non-graphical, you install within it a desktop environement 03:52:52<@r2d2> KDE and Gnome being the two most popular 03:53:01<@r2d2> both are very configurable 03:53:10< calculus> and friendly to new users 03:54:22< Dymd3z> but KDE and Gnome are not the same as colinux 03:54:38<@r2d2> colinux is merely a windows application that lets you run linux within windows 03:54:59<@r2d2> kde and gnome are suites of applications that run within linux 03:55:29< Dymd3z> oh okay 03:56:26< Dymd3z> well i was looking for something that was similar to this: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6041/seanss2dl.jpg 03:56:33< Dymd3z> excluding the background image 03:56:57< calculus> looks like fluxbox 03:57:09< Dymd3z> well it says gentoo 03:57:19< calculus> oh i meant window manager 03:57:29< Dymd3z> yes 03:57:34<@r2d2> think of gentoo as err, a car 03:57:38< calculus> another option to kde or gnome 03:57:53<@r2d2> gentoo just helps you get software 03:58:19 * Dymd3z confused 03:58:45<@r2d2> kde, gnome, fluxbox, firefox, these are all 'packages' 03:58:52<@r2d2> gentoo helps you install packages 03:59:56<@r2d2> once you install the packages, you can run the programs, which is what you'd actually see 04:00:10< Dymd3z> well how could i get something like that - the gentoo "thingy" that shows CPU Usage etc. 04:00:17<@r2d2> the fact that that screenshot was made in gentoo is quite inconsequencial 04:00:34<@r2d2> other distributions like redhat or debian can install the sdame programs 04:01:10<@r2d2> that 'thingy' is a little program showing stats, the part that says 'gentoo' is just an identifier to the linux kernel version 04:01:15< Dymd3z> and those are strickly w/ linux correct? 04:01:24<@r2d2> the 'thingy' is not gentoo, but was installed *through* gentoo 04:01:32< Dymd3z> oh okay 04:02:03< Dymd3z> or 04:02:17< Dymd3z> could i get colinux to look similar to that screenshot? 04:02:53<@r2d2> yes, you could, but is your real goal here to get something that looks like that thing showing stats? 04:03:36< Dymd3z> stats overall 04:03:54<@r2d2> is that really what your after here though, a nice thing showing you stats? 04:04:57< Dymd3z> well originally yes but, i've heard alot of nice things about linux which intrigued me 04:05:52<@r2d2> well, I'd recommend you get a LiveCD which lets you run a full linux environement off a cd 04:06:08<@r2d2> you will reboot your machine, put cd in, boot it, and then be in linux instead of windows 04:06:26<@r2d2> it will not affect anything on your machine, no need to install, and you'll be able to learn a little more about what linux is 04:07:09< Dymd3z> well if i were to get linux i would want something that looked similar to in the screenshot 04:07:34<@r2d2> it's configurable 04:07:51<@r2d2> and off the cd would be to learn about it, once you install, you'd have more control04:09:11< Dymd3z> okay, thank you guys for all your help and all my (annoying) questions 04:09:36<@r2d2> http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/shots.xml 04:10:45< Dymd3z> where could i find the LiveCD for gentoo? 04:11:17<@r2d2> most all gentoo livecd's are actually just text based and for install 04:12:04< calculus> maybe hardened? 04:12:40< Dymd3z> something like: http://www.gentoo.org/images/shots/aether.png 04:13:12<@r2d2> look can be configured... 04:13:30<@r2d2> a livecd will be somewhat generic, and configured, but is not worthwhile 04:13:43< Dymd3z> what do you mean? 04:13:45<@r2d2> when/if you install, you can configure to your hearts content 04:14:04<@r2d2> your main concern should not be how it looks right now 04:14:15< Dymd3z> ok 04:14:33<@r2d2> learn about linux, decide if you want to use it, if you do, then you can poor some time into it 04:15:28< Dymd3z> well im about 99.9% sure that i want to use it 04:15:56<@r2d2> you need to learn bout about 'it', so you know what it is you think you want to use 04:19:55<@Cardoe> god damnit 04:22:15< Dymd3z> ? 04:23:35-!- Armi^ [n=wouter@co-c-3c14d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #gentoo-laptop 04:31:13-!- Dymd3z [n=asdf@adsl-154-224-240.jax.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 04:57:18<+opello> does something replace euse -i ? 05:02:41-!- Hard_Drive [i=Hard_Dri@trvl-216-12-83-73.access.ntelos.net] has joined #gentoo-laptop 05:04:02< Hard_Drive> I recompiled my kernel and now I lost pcmcia, I did not change thoese settings and cardmgr reports "no pcmcia driver in /proc/dvices" What could be wrong? 05:06:20-!- Hard_Drive [i=Hard_Dri@trvl-216-12-83-73.access.ntelos.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:59-!- Armi^ [n=wouter@co-c-3c14d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:56-!- Armi^ [n=wouter@co-c-3c14d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #gentoo-laptop
i'll go ahead and open it then
I've tried to read this, but it's hard for me to see what the problem is. I'm adding Cardoe to the distribution, so that he can explain, if he wishes to.
I'm really slow today. I'm restricting this, too.
Guess I'll try to pull out the important parts: -------------- 04:27:28<@r2d2> I don't see how it's gentoo's fault 04:27:45<@r2d2> as gentoo isn't exactly something that's actively running 04:28:03<@r2d2> kernel kernel kernel... 04:28:03<@Battousai> it's always gentoo's fault 04:28:05<@Battousai> duh 04:28:25<@Cardoe> r2d2: go through my kernel config and fix it then 04:28:37<@Battousai> pwned 04:28:46<@Cardoe> if it's the kernel 04:29:16<@Cardoe> And the other annoying thing 04:29:20<@r2d2> that's the spirit ... "why don't you fix it for me" 04:29:26<@Cardoe> If I don't use "emerge" for long periods of time... 04:29:32<@Cardoe> r2d2: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT 04:29:34<@r2d2> cause of course, I'm the one having the problem, and it's my fault 04:29:40<@Cardoe> IF I DID THEN I WOULDN'T COMPLAIN 04:29:54<@Cardoe> JACKASS 04:30:04<@Cardoe> r2d2: you weren't helped in #-laptop 04:30:15<@Cardoe> and now you're just being the same unhelpful prick 04:30:17<@r2d2> and here I thought it was the laptop, and not the user that was hot 04:30:48<@Cardoe> fuck you r2d2 04:30:56<@Battousai> easy Cardoe 04:30:58<@Battousai> it's just irc 04:32:28<@blackace> Cardoe: language please. 04:32:42<@Cardoe> blackace: If you don't want to hear fucking language, look away. 04:32:52<@Battousai> heh 04:32:53<@r2d2> Cardoe: I apologize, sorry for not being able to fix your mysterious problem given no fact, I'll try harder next time 04:33:03<@Cardoe> r2d2: I already told you.. fuck you. ----------------------- ----------------------- 19:37:00<@Cardoe> Betelgeuse: ping 19:38:11<@Cardoe> Betelgeuse: are you a moron? http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/Cardoe 19:38:55<@Cardoe> !away cardoe 19:38:55<+jeeves> cardoe -> did not edit his/her devaway and or I'm malfunctioning. 19:39:14<@Halcy0n> I can feel the love. 19:39:56<@Cardoe> He pisses me off with his e-mails sometimes 19:40:16<@Halcy0n> Yea, so? 19:40:20<@Cardoe> He sent me an e-mail saying he tinkered with a package because my CVS stats show I'm inactive and I have a devaway set. 19:40:31<@Cardoe> No devaway 19:40:36<@Halcy0n> Alright, so he made a mistake, no reason to be an ass. 19:40:48<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: yes there is. 19:40:59<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: if you knew the background 19:41:25<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: It was to brad? 19:41:57<@Halcy0n> !away brad 19:41:58<+jeeves> brad -> did not edit his/her devaway and or I'm malfunctioning. 19:44:55<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: ndiswrapper-1.4.ebuild: 19:44:56<@Betelgeuse> maintainership over to brad since I haven't had the hardware for ages 19:45:07<@Cardoe> There ya go 19:45:40<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: I don't see a problem here? 19:47:31<@Betelgeuse> Cardoe: You might want to check To: and CC: next time. 19:47:45<@Halcy0n> Betelgeuse: but that would require....not being an ass. 19:49:20<@ciaranm> did Cardoe strangely just vanish? 19:49:27<@Halcy0n> I think he realized he got owned. 19:49:38<@Battousai> i believe the technical term is pwned 19:49:49<@Cardoe> ciaranm: no 19:49:59<@Cardoe> I was putting stuff on the stove. 19:50:18<@Cardoe> Halcy0n: so I'm an ass. oh well. ----------------------- Problem? Well, I consider it obvious, but I guess I'll point to the Etiquette policy devrel maintains(http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=3&chap=2): Section 2a: ....however that all developers maintain reasonable standards of behaviour with our community - whether to other developers or users.... ....We just require you to be equally respectful to developers and users alike, and to value the opinion of everybody.... Section 2b: ....One should try to not be rude, abusive or impolite under any circumstances.... ....Please remember that you are an official representative of Gentoo. In this capacity, you are expected to maintain a certain level of professionalism and courtesy in your day-to-day interactions with users and other developers.... Section 2c: ....Do not abuse or discriminate users or developers.... ....#gentoo and #gentoo-dev are clean-language channels; ....
> ....#gentoo and #gentoo-dev are clean-language channels; .... That applies to those two channels only; so #gentoo-laptop is whatever latexer decides it to be in terms of "language". But of course, just because there's no clean-language clause it doesn't mean that random abuse such as in comment #6 is justified.
yes, but the first log was in #gentoo-dev
(In reply to comment #7) > > ....#gentoo and #gentoo-dev are clean-language channels; .... > > That applies to those two channels only; so #gentoo-laptop is whatever latexer > decides it to be in terms of "language". But of course, just because there's no > clean-language clause it doesn't mean that random abuse such as in comment #6 > is justified. > There was no 'clean-language' problem in #gentoo-laptop, in fact, no real problem in #gentoo-laptop at all. The two problems arose in #gentoo-dev, the #gentoo-laptop log was only posted as it was referenced. On anoher note, I'd like to know a little but about bug 108349. It was not 'graciously' opened as this one was, so it's contents are unknown to me. Based on the time it was filed, I have a guess, but I'd like to know more. Specifically, if it is about what I believe, why was it not opened, why was nothing done, why was it closed, etc.
Now that I'm privy to 'the other bug' I'm wondering why was this bug immediatly opened to all devs, while the other bug was not (and still hasn't been) Why is it that in the other bug no action was taken on the basis of it doing 'more harm than good'? How can rectifying a situation make it worse? Perhaps fear of more acting out? Is that not just indicative that the problem is even larger, and certainly does need to be dealt with? Ferris, why is it you told Cardoe that you will not pursue this? Should devrel not be pursuing this? Also, what do you not see? You have been presented with evidence of innapropriate behavior on multiple occasions. Grant, consider this a 'ping' as your comment in the other bug says to do. Referring once more to the etiquette guide, I'd like to point out the following in section 2a: "However, you may be subject to sanctions or a suspension if a resonable [sic] standard is not met." I think asking devs to follow all the things I pointed out in comment 6 is reasonable Yes, I realize I am commenting on things in the other bug here, but again, not all can see that bug.
i see no reason to keep 108349 closed either
Closing this bug - if I'm reading this correctly there is nothing new in this than in #108349. #108349 was closed with the opinion that if a problem arose again the ombudsman should be contacted (neither I or Grant were around to speak to Cardoe about this when the issue occured). Nobody's reported any issues since then, so this is pretty pointless being several months old. r2d2, betelgeuse -- if you still have problems or see an issue with this resolution then talk to me on IRC so we can get this sorted out. Regarding IRC policy I've spoken to Cardoe about his use of language.
Also, the other bug is now viewable -- fmccor took the flag off. Bugs to devrel@ by default get a devrel flag and it wasn't removed (by accident, it seems) on the other bug.
(In reply to comment #12) > Closing this bug - if I'm reading this correctly there is nothing new in this > than in #108349. #108349 was closed with the opinion that if a problem arose > again the ombudsman should be contacted (neither I or Grant were around to > speak to Cardoe about this when the issue occured). > Well maybe nothing new in terms of behaviour but at least repeated behaviour. The second log is from yesterday. I should also note that I haven't received any kind of an apology or explanation from Cardoe.
(In reply to comment #10) > Now that I'm privy to 'the other bug' I'm wondering why was this bug immediatly > opened to all devs, while the other bug was not (and still hasn't been) > > Why is it that in the other bug no action was taken on the basis of it doing > 'more harm than good'? How can rectifying a situation make it worse? Perhaps > fear of more acting out? Is that not just indicative that the problem is even > larger, and certainly does need to be dealt with? > > Ferris, why is it you told Cardoe that you will not pursue this? Should devre 1. Because based on comments to this time, I couldn't see anything to pursue. If you have anything, please append it, because I can't see anything beyond two developers fighting, which I am not interested in. I am probably missing something, which you need to alert me of. (More later, if needed, but please number your paragraphs, as above. :)) > not be pursuing this? Also, what do you not see? You have been presented with > evidence of innapropriate behavior on multiple occasions. > > Grant, consider this a 'ping' as your comment in the other bug says to do. > > Referring once more to the etiquette guide, I'd like to point out the following > in section 2a: > > "However, you may be subject to sanctions or a suspension if a resonable [sic] > standard is not met." > > I think asking devs to follow all the things I pointed out in comment 6 is > reasonable > > Yes, I realize I am commenting on things in the other bug here, but again, not > all can see that bug. >
I'm not one to generally comment about issues such as this, however I feel that it
I'm not one to generally comment about issues such as this, however I feel that its setting a bad precedent in this case. To quote from the devrels own description, Developer relations handles many personnel-related tasks, such as adding and removing developers, solving conflicts, and providing a contact point for prospective and current developers. In general terms, it feels as if the issue is being brushed under the carpet while everyone is sitting here watching it being done. A conflict did in fact happen, and the person who was on the receiving end felt it was enough of an issue to be brought to devrels attention. From the looks of both bugs, there would appear to have been no communication to the subject of this bug at all about the policies. This as I stated earlier is setting a bad precedent. It all but condones the act for this individual, and quite possibly others to follow. Apparently, the behavior has happened at least once more, quite recently, and seems to be following the same path as the initial report of two months ago. As it stands neither conflict has really been solved, one could argue the former has due to time passing. However, thats not really the case since people have just decided it was far enough back to grow apathetic to the entire issue. This last time however is current, and should actively be solved by a member of devrel. How it is solved is up to them, but some action should be taken to reinforce the proper etiquette that is expected of Gentoo-developers, to not only their peers but also anyone as a representative of the organization as a whole
Generally, these sorts of things should be resolved with the help of project leads or through mediation with an ombudsman. Please review http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/policy.xml generally, especially the first two paragraphs. So, I am explicitly copying another ombudsman and asking for comments from them. I am also going to try to set down briefly the sorts of things that I would like to see in a bug like this to devrel, but not as part of this bug itself (more likely as a little RFC). I'm not going to reopen this bug, but an ombudsman can talk to the two developers if there is anything left to talk about. If this is a dead issue at this point, sorry for keeping up the noise.
Created attachment 122057 [details] IRC log on #gentoo-dev starting 2007-06-14 1730UTC 21:01 <@fmccor> If you file a devrel bug, someone will mediate it, we will all agree that it's fixed now and that Cardoe won't do it again. 21:02 <@fmccor> Before filing a bug, please both of you think about it for a few minutes, then try to work it out between yourselves in private. 21:03 <@Betelgeuse> fmccor: yeah that's why I was thinking it might not be worth it 21:03 <@Betelgeuse> He has had a couple of devrel bugs in the past so I will just comment on them 21:04 <@fmccor> That's the best approach, I think. Not wanting to open a new bug I will just comment on this one so it gets on record.
