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Bug 592200 - Foundation needs to handle inbound postal mail better, by scanning & emailing
Summary: Foundation needs to handle inbound postal mail better, by scanning & emailing
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: Gentoo Foundation
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Proposals (show other bugs)
Hardware: All Linux
: Highest major (vote)
Assignee: Gentoo Board of Trustees
URL:
Whiteboard: finance-amount:USD150 finance-audit:T...
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2016-08-26 20:09 UTC by Robin Johnson
Modified: 2017-03-26 19:13 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


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Description Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-08-26 20:09:16 UTC
Summary: Foundation needs to handle inbound postal mail better.

Objectives:
Foundation should capture incoming physical mail for legal compliance and improved communication.

Description:
At least least two points in the past, the Foundation has had delayed or missing critical postal mail. The first was the missing mail that lead to the temporary revokation of the Foundation by New Mexico PRC, and the second was IRS mailings.

To reduce future occurrences, the foundation needs to retain a service that receives & scans postal mail. The scanned mail should be retained for legal compliance and long-term record-keeping (eg tax records for 10 years).

Personnel:
Robin Johnson (robbat2), Foundation treasurer

Hard Deadline:
2016/10/01 (so it can be used for bank & IRS filings for this tax year, tax deadline November).

Amount:
$15-$50/month recurring cost. => $180-$600/year.
Some vendors have $5-$50 one-time setup fee.

Deliverables:
Scanned non-junk mail should be retained by the Foundation for legal compliance.

Implementation Timeline:
ASAP after approval

Supporting information: 
Potential vendors:
Travelling Mailbox ** Suggested vendor
https://travelingmailbox.com/ 
Basic $15/month, no fax, 3 recipients
Extended $25/month, includes incoming fax support, 5 recipients.
Bundled forwarding costs.
(This service is used by one of prometheanfire's co-workers already)

PostScanMail
https://www.postscanmail.com/ $15-$25/month, has no fax stuff, unlimited recipients, but forwarding of actual items costs $0.85/item

ScanMailBoxes
https://www.scanmailboxes.com/
$25/month, unlimited recipients, no fax, forwarding costs per item.

EarthClassMail
https://www.earthclassmail.com/
Explicitly a business service, with pricing $100-$500/month, which is out of our budget for this project.

Alternatives:
As an alternative to a scanning service, we could keep a address that forwards, and have a trustee do the scanning. This cost is probably going to be as high as the scanning service. For due diligence, get a quote on this as well.
Estimates for alternative:
USGlobalMail wants $25/month+shipping for their cheapest option of business mail forwarding (https://www.usglobalmail.com/small-business/pricing/ their personal plans do not permit business use)
Comment 1 Alex Xu (Hello71) 2016-08-26 21:07:43 UTC
More vendors:

Virtual Post Mail
http://www.virtualpostmail.com/
$10/month but only 10 mails and 5 scans.

Mailbox Forwarding
https://www.mailboxforwarding.com/pricing.php
$15/month, includes "shared fax line". $0.75/item for forwarding.
Comment 2 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-08-26 21:39:28 UTC
Guidelines for comparing pricing:
- We need to account for per-recipient costs, we're going to have at least 2 recipients:
-- Treasurer (cheques, taxes, accounting)
-- Secretary (official recipient for legal documents)

- Check deposit may be valuable (otherwise we have to forward the cheque to a trustee and then mail it to the bank). Historically, we get 1-2 cheques/year. Mobile cheque deposit (by smartphone/camerapicture) may be an option in future, but is NOT presently available on any of our bank accounts. If it does become an option, we can use the scans to do it ourselves.

- Legal documents require physical retention as well as digital retention, so good mail forwarding costs are needed.

- Registered Agent service supporting our New Mexico registration would be useful. Our present registered agent has been doing it for free for a decade, but I don't think such an arrangement will continue forever.
Comment 3 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-08-26 22:00:33 UTC
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #2)
> Guidelines for comparing pricing:
Overall mail volume expected (based on the existing box of mail I got from quantumsummers):

- Max of 2 bank statements [sometimes monthly, at least every 3 months], 2-3 pages each = 0-6 pages/month = 16-72 pages/year.
- NMPRC mail (2/year), 1 page/ea, eg renewal notice = 2 pages/year
- IRS mail (1-2/year), 1-5 pages/ea = 5-10 pages/year
- Cheques (2/year), 3 page/ea, eg include letter, double-sided scan of cheque = 6 pages/year (eg including a letter)
Estimate summary:
30-90 pages/year => 3-8 pages/month.
13-30 pieces/year => 1-3 pieces/month.
Comment 4 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-08-26 22:22:52 UTC
Other note in looking at service offerings:
Some of the companies have terms of service that prohibit non-personal use on the "personal" accounts, so we need to make sure the compared options do permit business/non-profit use.
Comment 5 Alex Xu (Hello71) 2016-08-27 02:13:38 UTC
by my calculations, despite the very low default quotas, Virtual Post Mail is still the cheapest provider.

using the current "Scanners Paradise" promotion (available until the end of the month and valid as long as the account remains open), the cost per month would be:

base: $10
10 mails: free
5 scans: free
1 extra recipient: $1
2 check deposits per year, amortized: $10 / 12 = $0.83 (assuming separately mailed)
4 forwards per year, amortized: $1.95 * 4 / 12 = $0.65 (assuming separately mailed)

total: $12.48

second cheapest would be Traveling Mailbox, $15 is not significantly more, amounting to only $30.24/year.

alternative vendor, possibly even cheaper (although somewhat 'sketchy'):

ClevverMail
https://www.clevvermail.com/
base is only €0.95, but all you get is address and 1 envelope scan, everything else costs money.

I was unable to find any US forwarding services that were directed towards letter mail and not parcels and were priced at lower than $15/month.
Comment 6 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-18 19:08:12 UTC
I went looking for:
1. Reviews
2. Requirements to do registered agent service.

> ClevverMail
They get very bad reviews online, lots of complaints of missing mail. They sub-contract to shared co-working office spaces for the incoming mail, which hasn't been reliable.

> Virtual Postal Mail
Based in California, has lots of California-specific requirements to be the Registered agent. State fees of $55 first year ($30+$25), $25/year thereafter Form SI-350.
Some details here: http://help.virtualpostmail.com/article/88-article-using-virtual-post-mail-as-your-california-registered-agent

> Travelling Mailbox
Can act as Registered Agent, for the North Carolina address only. Must file North Carolina paperwork, state fees $15 first year, $5/year thereafter.
Comment 7 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-18 19:30:45 UTC
> Mailbox Forwarding
Reviews so-so. MI state paperwork costs $20/year, registered agent filing including in annual filing requirement.
Comment 8 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-18 19:40:01 UTC
Per Trustees meeting 2016/09/18:
"Motion: Approve $250/year for the service, and $50/year max in legal paperwork"
Motion passed.

This will probably be going with Traveling Mailbox, subject to a support ticket I emailed them for confirmation on North Carolina legal filing requirements.
Comment 9 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-18 21:29:39 UTC
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #6)
> > Travelling Mailbox
> Can act as Registered Agent, for the North Carolina address only. Must file
> North Carolina paperwork, state fees $15 first year, $5/year thereafter.

Correction:
https://www.sosnc.gov/corporations/pdf/nonprofitcorporation.pdf
"Foreign nonprofit corporations, which are incorporated under laws other than the laws of North Carolina, must apply for a Certificate of Authority in order to transact business in this state. "

0. Get a new Certificate of Existence/Good-Standing/Compliance from New Mexico PRC, must be LESS than 6 months old. Cost $10USD to NMPRC. Must get physical hard-copy for it.

1. In person, or by physical mail, file N-09 "Application of Certificate of Authority" (For Nonprofit Corporation)
From https://www.sosnc.gov/corporations/Forms.aspx?PItemId=5429733&Type=Nonprofit%20Corporation
Cost $125 to file, payment by cheque (must be from US bank! with existing signatory), money order or USD cash.
Must include the original Certificate from #0.

2. $5 to change the address thereafter.

3. No annual filing requirement.

4. Dissolution filing requirements in future, presently $10.
Comment 10 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-19 00:30:49 UTC
> > Virtual Postal Mail
> Based in California, has lots of California-specific requirements to be the
> Registered agent. State fees of $55 first year ($30+$25), $25/year
> thereafter Form SI-350.
> Some details here:
> http://help.virtualpostmail.com/article/88-article-using-virtual-post-mail-
> as-your-california-registered-agent
Do NOT file in California, one of the knock-on requirements is that corporations (including those that are non-profit), have to pay a minimum annual tax of $800 (the Franchise Tax).

The only way to avoid it for a foreign (where Foreign = "not incorporated in California") non-profit, is to have a federal non-profit status determination letter, which I'm certain I've never physically or digitially seen for Gentoo (but suspect it does exist).
Comment 11 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-19 00:36:45 UTC
@hello71:
You were doing extra research on these, did you see any mail scanning services based out New Mexico?
Comment 12 Alex Xu (Hello71) 2016-09-19 11:53:50 UTC
(In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #11)
> @hello71:
> You were doing extra research on these, did you see any mail scanning
> services based out New Mexico?

I posted all the ones that I was able to locate with a quick search here. I also don't really understand what exactly you need for an address to be used as a registered agent.
Comment 13 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-22 21:41:48 UTC
(In reply to Alex Xu (Hello71) from comment #12)
> (In reply to Robin Johnson from comment #11)
> > @hello71:
> > You were doing extra research on these, did you see any mail scanning
> > services based out New Mexico?
> I posted all the ones that I was able to locate with a quick search here. I
> also don't really understand what exactly you need for an address to be used
> as a registered agent.
In the case that Wayne Chew won't always be our Registered Agent [he may be the source of some of the lost mail], we're already registered in the state of New Mexico. If there was a mail scanning service that also offered Registered Agent service, we'd only have to file for a change of registered agent there, not also for recognition by another state.

To be able to use a firm as a registered agent, that state has to recognize your corporation/business/non-profit.

Mailbox Forwarding:
State paperwork in MI costs $50+ upfront, $20+/year.

Travelling Mailbox:
State paperwork in NC costs $125+ upfront, no annual.

Virtual Postal Mail:
State paperwork in CA costs $55 upfront, $25/year, BUT also opens liability for an additional $800/year in taxes.
Comment 14 Roy Bamford gentoo-dev 2016-09-23 08:31:36 UTC
The board discussed registering in Michigan (MI) as a foreign NPO as it was useful to Matt. We also went as far as agreeing to use his PO box there as the registered address.

I don't recall if it ever went through. Looking in Michigans on line database, foreign registrations need to be repeated annually and expire on 31 Dec.  If we ever registered, its lapsed now.

The general mail forwarding and registered agent address are two separate topics.
If we stay registered in New Mexico, we have to keep a snail mail address there.
Moving our registration from one state to another is non trivial so should not delay resolving this bug.
Comment 15 David Abbott (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2016-09-23 08:38:31 UTC
It was Missouri not Michigan.
Comment 16 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-09-23 20:58:55 UTC
I was not proposing moving the NFP, just choosing a state where the additional recognition paperwork was not overly burdensome (eg California's tax requirement).

Short of finding a mail-scanning company based in New Mexico, using Travelling Mailbox (based in North Carolina), is looking like the best option. The banking pieces would use that address immediately, and the registered agent change only happens if needed.
Comment 17 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2016-12-08 20:31:32 UTC
Service purchased from Travelling Mailbox.
- $150/year ($15/mo, plus 2 months free).
- Paid w/ Paypal.

Pending activation, then filing USPS forms to allow scanning.
Comment 18 Robin Johnson archtester Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev Security 2017-03-26 19:13:59 UTC
Address is live.