In carefully following the Handbook many times, and asking counsel of fellows in the forums, I've finally figured out why the LiveCD insists on DLing files for a Stage3 install. Certain dependencies are simply missing from the CD. I'm sure these were removed because the CD is packed full as it is, but it would have saved me days, to know that an install is simply not possible without internet.
When booting gentoo, and following Handbook procedure for a Stage3 non-internet install using gentoo-sources, upon chroot and bootstrap, the system tried and tried to get gentoo-sources-pre5-pre6 via internet.
When booting gentoo, and following Handbook procedure for a Stage3 non-internet install using gentoo-dev-sources, upon chroot and bootstrap, the system tried and tried to get module-init-tools-3.0 via internet.
Neither dependency is on the CD. And so it is not possible to install Gentoo using 2004.1 without foundation internet access.
This is not a reflection on the developers; we all know they're doing the best they can. But it's important for us n00bs to know.
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Installation rigorously by the book.
It called and called for internet access, to no avail, as I have only WiFi. (An
install procedure which I've just composed and added to HowTos)
I just did the install with both kernels and the needed dependencies and kernel sources installed fine from the INSTALL CD /distfiles directory.
Sorry, but you wanted to install via stage3 and want to bootstrap? So you didn't read the handbook carefully. bootstrap.sh is only used on stage1 installations. You don't need to do it when installing via stage3 and it also isn't covered by the distfiles and grp-packages.
6.b. Differences between Stage1, Stage2 and Stage3
Now take a seat and think of your previous steps. We asked you to select a stage1, stage2 or stage3 and warned you that your choice is important for further installation steps. Well, this is the first place where your choice defines the further steps.
* If you chose stage1, then you have to follow both steps in this chapter (starting with Progressing from Stage1 to Stage2)
* If you chose stage2 you only can skip the first step and immediately start with the second one (Progressing from Stage2 to Stage3)
* If you chose stage3 (either with or without GRP) then you can skip both steps and continue with Configuring the Kernel
What a hellatious response...
In reference to the sarcasm, my description of the problem is from memory, as I must go to a library miles away to get internet. Unfortunately I do not remember precisely every detail in its exactness, but I found an install without internet to be impossible.
I should add that I was using the universal x86 iso.
Unfortunately, without exact errors and knowledge of what you are trying to do exactly, there is little, if anything that we can do. I understand how you might have taken Beejay's response to be sarcastic or condescnding, but I beleive he was thinking that you were doing something incorrectly, which is the way that I read your report myself. I would suggest you writing down #1. what you are trying to do exactly #2. the exact error message
I did report details in another bug filed for that purpose. If the (uneducated) BeeJay had read my remarks and forum post in a *non*-lackadasical manner, he would have understood a bit better. For (thinking) people, there is an ambiguity, which I have tried to point out for your benefit.
The real problem is that with universal x86 LiveCD 2004.1, key dependencies are missing from the CD for both a gentoo-sources and gentoo-dev-sources install, and so it calls for the internet. (which I do not have, as my access is via WiFi (orinoco). But I did solve this and contribute a HowTo:
I should note also that I had the "~x86" option in make.conf, which I now understand can cause it to call to the internet. Might want to put this gotcha in the Handbook.
But, because I've spent 7 full days on installing, and because of a hellatious response I got to the other bug, I'm dropping Gentoo, for FreeBSD (and hopefully some nicer ppl... I haven't been treated like this since Suse).
I see no links here to any forum post nor to the other bug, so it cannot be assumed that they were looked at in any way. In fact, even with your mentioning them both, I still see no links and am therefore unable to make any judgement for myself.
After doing a search for your email address as the reporter, I see the other bug, which was assigned to the documentation team, of which neither myself nor beejay are a part of, which means we would have had no knowledge of it.
Gentoo is not designed to do a stage1 without an internet connection. It says so in the documentation quite plainly and clearly.
Anyway, I guess you've decided to move on to other things, so I wish you luck and close this bug.
Whelp, I must come back to Gentoo. I had moved on to BSD, but had some questions; I soon discovered that I was not being allowed registration at freebsdforums.org because someone here, passed along some kind of 'bad news' about me.
So I'd like to get some understanding of what happened with my bugs. I had understood this bug-reporting system in the academic sense, where users are encouraged to report problems they see, in order to improve future releases. And I think that the tone of all three of my bugs reflected this positive, informational theory.
But all three were slammed closed as "invalid", accompanied with some angry comment or another. So it seems to me, a few people here see the reporting of bugs, as a personal affront.
Now, I am willing to help more than most ( http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=1187429#1187429 ), and overall I've seen a positive climate in the forums. So how should I view the reporting of bugs?
> I see no links here to any forum post nor to the other bug,
> so it cannot be assumed that they were looked at in any way.
> In fact, even with your mentioning them both, I still see no
> links and am therefore unable to make any judgement for myself.
I had put the link in the link formbox. Apparently it did not register. But my saga is laid out in detail here:
Any developer who can read it objectively, may get some benefit from my experience.
> After doing a search for your email address as the reporter,
> I see the other bug, which was assigned to the documentation
> team, of which neither myself nor beejay are a part of, which
> means we would have had no knowledge of it.
> Gentoo is not designed to do a stage1 without an internet
> connection. It says so in the documentation quite plainly and clearly.
Actually, this bug was intended for the install developers. In the one for docs I noted that indeed it is clearly stated that Stage1 must have internet. But at that point I was doing a Stage3, attempting to do it =without= internet. But the installer kept calling to the internet for files. I didn't have internet. This was very confusing, but the Handbook then seems to contradict its original statement in several places. I think I explained it pretty clearly in the actual bug report.
I finally realized (after 5 days) that the install was calling for dependencies that indeed are NOT on the universal x86 CD.
My goal was the improvement of Gentoo for the community, *sans*emotion*, and not the insultation of developers nor smearage of Gentoo.
So, how should I see this system?
I'm not really sure how to answer your question. To be honest, I really can't glean what it is you are asking of us.
I guess I will just sum up how the Gentoo install works and leave it at that. If you feel that perhaps the documentation is not clear on this, please let the documentation team know.
A stage1 requires access to the internet... so does a stage2.
A stage3 does not require access to the internet, provided you do not try to change your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS to ~arch as we only provide the ability to install a stable system from stage3 (or GRP).
The next release of Gentoo (2004.2) has the wireless tools installed. You can check out my test builds at http://dev.gentoo.org/~wolf31o2/releng and see if it works for you.
I tend to believe that were you to install from stage3 and leave your system with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS still at default that it would work perfectly, even without internet access, as we have had many people do this and it works. Now, we are aware of some missing dependencies (for gentoo-dev-sources, I know off the top of my head) in the GRP packages from 2004.1, but there should be no problems with the stage3 installation.
Thanks. Another reasonable person.
I'm saying though, that it appears to me that bugreporting is useless, and only invites trouble as some take it as a personal affront. OTOH most of you here are reasonable. I was just trying to figure out the climate.
So, I guess I'll still help the community out there but avoid reporting bugs, to preserve some sense of dignity. I was just trying to tell ppl that some key dependencies are missing from universal .1, and that users should not waste time like I did. Maybe 686 .1 installs just fine without internet, but universal does not. (Stage3, of course)
I'm pretty sure you're not understanding how our install structure works. ALL x86 machines use the universal (or minimal) CD to boot and install from. The 686(p4, athlon-xp) CD is only pre-compiled packages such as X, Gnome, and KDE.
I'll be quite honest with you, you'll get a *lot* more hell from developers for not filing bugs than you ever will for filing a bug which a developer feels isn't legitimate. The bugs system is the only real contact for much of our development team with the rest of the community. I understand that there can be times when it feels like your comments aren't being met in the best possible fashion. In such a case, you should take it up to management, because developers being outright rude is not tolerated.
However, in this case, I can't see how the developer in question was being rude, as he was simply pointing you to the documentation to ensure that you were installing Gentoo properly. From everything that I have gathered from this thread, you were not. While it may be that the documentation was not clear in this aspect, it was not the developer's intention to insult or belittle you in any way.
I apologise if you feel that this was not the case. If you really feel that you need to pursue this matter, then I would suggest that you take it up with Gentoo's ombudsman (firstname.lastname@example.org), who will proceed to start an investigation into the incident.
If you feel that there is a bug in the documentation, I would suggest filing a bug with them on the specific issue, preferably with a patch/fixed documentation, as that leads to a quicker response from our volunteer developers. As for this bug's subject, about not being able to install from LiveCD 2004.1 without access to the Internet, it truly is invalid as marked by beejay, because it is possible to do so, provided you do not do anything "unsupported" such as re-run the bootstrap.sh, run bootstrap-2.6.sh, or change your CFLAGS/ACCEPT_KEYWORDS, as any of these can cause your system to require additional downloads.