There doesn't appear to be an active developer responsible for perl. There are many bugs, few resolved. There are helper apps, not maintained. The only perl activity seems to be by someone not *tasked with* maintaining perl. It's nice to have some activity, but not right if not official. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Have a problem with perl on gentoo 2. try to find out who is responsible 3. It appears no one is assigned to solving the gentoo perl problems. 4. Last active assigned-to-perl dev seems to have retired. Another is 'away'. Third has no commits, right? Actual Results: Someone should be leading the maintenance for perl on gentoo AND SHOULD BE ADVERTISED AS SUCH. Having someone do the work without having the DESIGNATION as such, is just plain wrong. Expected Results: Who is perl dev for gentoo? Ah, here s/he is, and here are all their commits for the last six months. See, very active, no? Working hard to make the transition to perl 5.10 smooth for all users, killing bugs, maintaining g-cpan. Perl 5.10 is out for a year now. Suddenly *with no announcement* I see DEPENDENCIES on perl-5.10.0. Oh boy! Except, it was a bogus and problematic change. WHO DID THIS??? WHY??? AND WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR GETTING it done RIGHT? There is nowhere to go to get an answer. I fix bugs I find and can fix and post my ebuilds. What happens next? So, I think there should be a person ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE to fix/close bugs and do the work for maintaining perl on Gentoo. If someone has the title, but isn't doing the work and someone does the work but lacks the title, it is a developer relationship that needs fixing. Finally, it'd be great if there was, at least, some communication with the users (gentoo-perl MAILING LIST) to address this apparent lack, in particular if it isn't just simply due to need for interested volunteers -- and even if it is, you might find some takers..??
Unrestricted bug, see no need to keep locked down.
Michael, Responding here as it was brought to my attention. My answer to you will not fix any of your issues nor will it be something you like. First, we're an organization that is entirely made up of volunteers. As the saying goes, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. What I'm saying is that many of us make use of perl in many ways, but you can't force them to maintain it. This is the case with Gentoo. Many people pickup and maintain things haphazardly at best as there's no true corporate structure with titles or anything of that nature, nor assignments or any form of payment. Well you could consider your bug a form of payment...in abuse. So trying those approaches and expecting that is quite frankly just a laugh worthy statement. You seem gungho about perl for sure. I'm sure you've managed to work around/fix issues as you've needed them. Have you provided patches/bugfixes/debugging information to assist the team and allow them to just do a commit instead of having to figure out what's wrong and resolve it as that takes a lot longer obviously. The best thing to do if you want to see perl improving is to get involved in the above mentioned ways. Until then, stuff will be in the state its in and quite frankly as sad as it is, replies like this actually make those few who are doing a huge task (as perl is a lot of work. I'm very much aware of this) less likely to pick it up and work on fixing things. Again because they do it for their own reasons. As for who to poke, there's a few ways to look at it, you can check the changelog to see who did the last checkin for instance or even the metadata that shows the maintainer, even if its perl@gentoo.org you can find who's on the team for those as well.
(In reply to comment #2) > > First, we're an organization that is entirely made up of volunteers. As the > saying goes, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. What > I'm saying is that many of us make use of perl in many ways, but you can't > force them to maintain it. I know Gentoo is a volunteer org. Someone can still coordinate the volunteer work. Who is that person, or group? You've already closed the bug, but you didn't answer any of the questions I raised, though you appear to have information I have had difficulty finding. > > This is the case with Gentoo. Many people pickup and maintain things > haphazardly at best as there's no true corporate structure with titles or > anything of that nature, nor assignments or any form of payment. Well you could > consider your bug a form of payment...in abuse. > Actually, I've filed a bunch of bugs, some with patches and ebuilds. I've spent nearly two weeks trying to answer the question, what is up with perl maintainers at gentoo? Is there such a group, or not? I conclude not. If you agree, then can we just get it said and do something about it? There *should be* such a group. If not, Gentoo should be soliciting the community for extra volunteers, no? > So trying those approaches and expecting that is quite frankly just a laugh > worthy statement. Again, this *isn't* where I started. It is the conclusion: there is no active perl maintainer *assigned* to perl. There are some folks making commits, this is true. And maybe (probably) they have a plan. I'd like to know what it is, as a sysadmin with perl apps in production. But perl-5.10 is *late* to make it to the tree. Really late. What is happening? What's the timeline? > > You seem gungho about perl for sure. I'm sure you've managed to work around/fix > issues as you've needed them. Have you provided patches/bugfixes/debugging > information to assist the team and allow them to just do a commit instead of > having to figure out what's wrong and resolve it as that takes a lot longer > obviously. What team? That is the question... you could answer it, I suppose, as you refer to "the team". Right? '-) > > The best thing to do if you want to see perl improving is to get involved in > the above mentioned ways. Which I've done. I was kinda p.o.'d to hear from someone on irc that they had *duplicated* the work I did. So, I *wasted* my time. That's why I want to know who is "in charge", as it were, so I don't waste my time trying to help. > Until then, stuff will be in the state its in and > quite frankly as sad as it is, replies like this actually make those few who > are doing a huge task (as perl is a lot of work. I'm very much aware of this) > less likely to pick it up and work on fixing things. Again because they do it > for their own reasons. Who? Who does it? I see a few folks working on it, but the "perl team" is retired, away, or has no perl commits I can find. If you have some devs who have some interest, fine. If not, can't we find someone? > > As for who to poke, there's a few ways to look at it, you can check the > changelog to see who did the last checkin for instance Right. They are never part of the designated "perl" folks, which is why I filed this bug. > or even the metadata > that shows the maintainer, even if its perl@gentoo.org you can find who's on > the team for those as well. > HOW??? How do I find out who is receiving email for perl@gentoo.org? Anyway, I've concluded that there are no people with Gentoo who are actively coordinating the volunteers, a task that would fall to the "perl team", I assume, if there were such an active group. I love Gentoo, the philosophy, and my own experience with it. But, I don't like that there is, apparently, no designated "perl" group actively working to improve the support for perl (modules, versions, etc.). I've been hammering at this keyboard to determine if this is the case. I don't mind helping, but I want to know who is coordinating the volunteer effort, is all.
(In reply to comment #3) > > I know Gentoo is a volunteer org. Someone can still coordinate the volunteer > work. Who is that person, or group? That would be the council at the highest level, but its the leads of the projects/teams who'd be organizing the members..and even then some groups don't have leads. > Actually, I've filed a bunch of bugs, some with patches and ebuilds. I've spent > nearly two weeks trying to answer the question, what is up with perl > maintainers at gentoo? Is there such a group, or not? There's no one group who keeps track of all groups and what they are up to. There's no structure for such and quite frankly as an entirely online based group it doesn't have the communication that other online & brick and morter nfp's have that make it easier for that. > There *should be* such a group. If not, Gentoo should be soliciting the > community for extra volunteers, no? Gentoo is always looking for extra volunteers. If you have the time and wish to help out I can get you in touch with the recruiters and see about where you might be able to help out. > > > But perl-5.10 is *late* to make it to the tree. Really late. What is happening? > What's the timeline? I do not know the timeline, that would be a question for ian or yuval (irc nicks). who are the perl team. > > Which I've done. I was kinda p.o.'d to hear from someone on irc that they had > *duplicated* the work I did. So, I *wasted* my time. That's why I want to know > who is "in charge", as it were, so I don't waste my time trying to help. unfortunately the person who likely duplicated your work didn't look at bugs.gentoo.org for the issue and see you had a patch submitted just not commited to the tree yet. Its actually one of the first places I look when I run into a bug if its not just a simple obvious fix. > > > Who? Who does it? I see a few folks working on it, but the "perl team" is > retired, away, or has no perl commits I can find. If you have some devs who > have some interest, fine. If not, can't we find someone? offering perhaps to help with the issue perhaps. It might even be able to have someone proxy commit for you (basically you resolve issues and a developer does the commits for you)? > HOW??? How do I find out who is receiving email for perl@gentoo.org? Easiest way I know is to ask willikins (irc bot) with !herd perl for instance. It'll let you know who's associated with a team. > > I love Gentoo, the philosophy, and my own experience with it. But, I don't like > that there is, apparently, no designated "perl" group actively working to > improve the support for perl (modules, versions, etc.). I've been hammering at > this keyboard to determine if this is the case. The organizational structure you are looking for doesn't exist unfortunately. I'd also say that trying to implement such for all the teams/groups would really be a full time job as best and that's with people cooperating. In reality you'd find that there'd be a lot of resistance to it and likely would have trouble making it work (I'd actually like to see it happen but I'm now the bitter old dev who doesn't see positive changes anymore =/) > > I don't mind helping, but I want to know who is coordinating the volunteer > effort, is all. > Its individuals really coordinating themselves. Herds/groups are at best loose associations. Hopefully this clears things up for you a bit?
> I see DEPENDENCIES on perl-5.10.0. Oh boy! What package, in the tree, do you see depending on perl-5.10.0? > HOW??? How do I find out who is receiving email for perl@gentoo.org? The perl herd is officially defined in herds.xml, ian and yuval. (also available as "!herd perl" in our IRC channels). The alias is the herd plus a few others: dertobi123, tove. I'm not in either of them, but I use a bugzilla watch for Perl bugs that I'm interested in (usually because of some CPAN module that I'm the maintainer of or using for work). ian and yuval are the only ones that really touch dev-lang/perl in depth (others have done minor security patches). You complain about your bugs waiting two weeks. My informal stats indicates that the median bug wait time is 6-8 weeks and third quartile is 6-8 MONTHS. There is a very long tail distribution of still open bugs, and related bugs tend to be fixed in swaths - because it's easier than changing context very fast. If a user has a high degree of interest in something besides filing the bugs, they tend to come and find an active developer in that area, usually on IRC, but also sometimes via direct email.
Right. We're understaffed. - If you're interested in helping out poke me on irc.freenode.net (ian).
