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Bug 236561 - Channel operator on #gentoo-pl abuses his privileges
Summary: Channel operator on #gentoo-pl abuses his privileges
Status: RESOLVED CANTFIX
Alias: None
Product: Community Relations
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Developer Relations (show other bugs)
Hardware: All Linux
: High normal (vote)
Assignee: Gentoo Community Relations Team
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-09-03 12:23 UTC by Patryk Rzadzinski
Modified: 2008-09-24 02:11 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


Attachments
whole log (2008-09-05.log.gz,50.89 KB, text/plain)
2008-09-05 23:01 UTC, Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED)
Details

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Description Patryk Rzadzinski 2008-09-03 12:23:31 UTC
Hello,

As recommended by cla, I hereby post a formal complaint of channel operator abuse of the privilege to kick and ban another user. 

In this case, channel operators and other users have been freely chatting offtopic, mocking a not so liberal (aka stupid) channel rule, which forbids writing about physiological activities on the main channel, such as /me yawns. I was one of the participants in that chat, also mocking it. 

Without a warning or prior squelching (as the beforementioned rules require the operators) I got banned permanently for 24 hours by channel operator ch4os. No one else got banned.

A log from my lively discussion with ch4os after the ban (in Polish) can be viewed at http://wklej.org/id/2485/

PS.

No, I cannot translate it and no, I don't care what happens next or if any conclusions are drawn, I REALLY have more important problems than dealing with such matters. Nevertheless I hope this report helps.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1.join #gentoo-pl
2.perform /me ziewa
3.get banned :D

Actual Results:  
Getting banned

Expected Results:  
Removing that channel rule, removing op privileges from unsuitable persons.
Comment 1 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-03 14:41:53 UTC
Let's allow #gentoo-pl ops read the bug and voice their opinion.
Comment 2 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-03 15:38:45 UTC
It's not a DevRel bug.
Comment 3 Paweł Kilian 2008-09-03 15:39:06 UTC
In my opinion this bug should never see a daylight and this kind of behavior is just kiddish...

Well we made the rules for something. Sometimes we don't pay attention if someone is breaking the rules because we want to be COOOL as much as we can... 

In our topic we announced that the rules have changed but well nobody read it. It was clearly stated /me yawns /me farts etc = ban 

so please go and play in different sandbox
Comment 4 Szymon Szypulski 2008-09-03 15:39:57 UTC
Second step is against #gentoo-pl rules (this rule was added after voting at -core channel), i don't want to see any physiologcal activites on OUR channel (ziew = yawn), ban was taken after 3h, it was harsh and adequate (to Faustov behaviour) type of warning. Bugzilla isn't right place for such chit-chats. Please, Faustov translate transcription of our chat, i think that everyone want to know what do you think about me and rest of the #gentoo-pl staff (it's full of offensive comments)
Comment 5 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-03 17:29:10 UTC
For those who are thinking i'm not loyal and solid and so on: my recomendation was not for this specific, but global issue. For those who are thinking i did it behind your back: this bug is public now, you are free to comment out your opinion as well as justify yourself.

(In reply to comment #3)
> Well we made the rules for something. Sometimes we don't pay attention if
> someone is breaking the rules because we want to be COOOL as much as we can... 

s/want.*$/like them/

Generally, *you* turn a blind eye to people *you* like, and you kick/ban people you don't agree with. *You* voted down stupid rules *we* don't obey.

To yawn:
2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist ziewa
2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> ziew
2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek ciągle ziewa
2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> ziew
To crap:
2008-07-07.log:20:50 < en0x> a najlepiej to nasraj jej na twarz :p
2008-05-22.log:21:17 < en0x> to jest taka mina jakby cis ie ktos na klate zessral

Note all selected above are channel operators.

[snip frome wklej.org]
[11:24:04] <Faustov> napisaliscie se durny regulamin
[11:24:10] <Faustov> chcecie sie go stricte trzymac
[11:24:14] <Faustov> to czemu sami go lamiecie?
[11:24:18] <Faustov> wkleilem 2 punkty
[11:24:21] <ch4os> ja go nie lame
[11:24:32] <ch4os> zasady dla opow to tylko sugestia

I don't see any reason we can break rules and say "we are ops, rules are only suggestion for us"

To sum up:
While i have nothing against ch4os... he did what our rules say. My question is if we need stupid rules we don't obey?

Feel free to close this bug as wontfix, invalid, whatever. The only thing you are afraid is others will think we can't reach an agreement in our kindergarten. Yes we can't, because you try to rise your ego with being above others and show'em you are better. Is this how we are proffesional (what *our* rule says)? Think about it for while.
Comment 6 Antek Grzymała (antoszka) 2008-09-05 09:49:08 UTC
I'm not very happy with this stuff becoming a Gentoo Bug, but since it's already happened here's my opinion:

* Yawning has been properly voted against according to our procedures (this is clear)
* These rules apply to the ops as much as to other users (I think there should be no discussion about that).

So one problem arises:

* What do we do if the ops do not obey the rules they have themselves set up? We don't seem to have a clear policy on that. Should they have their op status taken away for a time? What if the channel owner breaks the rules then?

Zonk.
Comment 7 Gall Anonim 2008-09-05 18:42:47 UTC
http://wklej.org/id/2789/

This shows how other user who need help get silenced...
Comment 8 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 19:25:25 UTC
As userrel was requested to review this bug and we were poked in our channel about this, we would like to ask rane and cla to please review the issues raised here and to try to settle this between the op team of the channel and the users.
If anyone is interested, we can appoint someone from the userrel team to help mediate.
Please take your time trying to reach an understanding. If that is impossible to achieve or if there's no interest in that, poke us again so we can see what else we can do.
To be clear, the only issue I've seen raised that I think is relevant to userrel is the "claim" of user abuse in the channel.
Comment 9 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 21:28:41 UTC
(In reply to comment #7)
> http://wklej.org/id/2789/
> 
> This shows how other user who need help get silenced...
> 

Yeah, indeed. He was looking for help and we were trying our best to help him. But because noone was using hal and evdev, noone was able to help him in fact. The other story is he started commenting out how lame are we so we can't help in simple thing. Well, he didn't call us lamez0rs or so, but "so, you can't help me and it's true how others say about you" was enough for me to know, what will be end of this story. That's why i muted him and asked to talk to me on private what he haven't done. Now, i don't know what problem do you see here Nitram Kricker, or as you prefer Gall Anonim but the whole thing "i came here with problem, i've read your rules, stop talking about other things and help me with my broken keyboard" looks to me like a cheap provocation, so please stop spreading rumour.

jmbsvicetto@
Thanks for your input. I'll ask rane and others if we can talk about this.
Comment 10 Gall Anonim 2008-09-05 22:21:08 UTC
in reply to Comment #9:

"Kanał powstał w celu wymiany wiedzy i doświadczeń pomiędzy polskimi użytkownikami Gentoo. Należy do polskiej społeczności Gentoo i przez tę społeczność jest zarządzany. Jest kanałem oficjalnym, zarejestrowanym przez jednego z deweloperów Gentoo za zgodą zespołu Gentoo Developer Relations. Władze kanału to najbardziej doświadczeni użytkownicy tej dystrybucji oraz osoby aktywnie ją rozwijające."

especially "Władze kanału to najbardziej doświadczeni użytkownicy tej dystrybucji oraz osoby aktywnie ją rozwijające".

what i think could be translated as 'operator/founders are  the most experienced users of that distribution and/or developers'.

18:23 < cla> Likoski: Skoro nie uzywam, to mam w dupie jak to dziala, generalnie.

what means 'if don't use, i have that in my ass, in general'...


Yes, maybe you have that in your ass, but as 'most experienced user' he/you shouldn't  tell that, should he/you? So ban people because they are expecting help from most experienced users?


18:23 < cla> Likoski: Nie czytam bugow, nie interesuje sie

If you cant help, why you discuss? i even dont tknow how to treat that then... SPAM?

"Bądźcie profesjonalni i uprzejmi." - without doubt that was unprofessial!
"Kiedy karzecie kogoś za przewinienia, podajcie jako powód adres tego dokumentu i punkt, który został naruszony." - i have not found any information about that, maybe u had?
Comment 11 Gall Anonim 2008-09-05 22:31:18 UTC
and one small addition: "so, you can't
help me and it's true how others say about you" - thats the opinion you have hammered out. Also i would say the translation is incorrect because he said: 'mi tez jest niezmiernie przykro ze nikt z Was nie wiedzial... sadzilem ze tego glowy mi pomoga' what could be translated into 'i am really sorry noone could help me here, 'cos nooone known a solution... i hoped so experienced users would help' or sth like that...

I am not sire if that sentense == 'you are lamers'

Next we see a quastion - '18:23 < cla> W sensie?' and he w/o doubt answered, then get silenced.
Comment 12 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 22:55:05 UTC
You are hardly mixing facts. My question "w sensie?" was directed to webchat asking for some VM/xen stuff. It wasn't directed to you. 

Next, "so, you can't help me and it's true how others say about you" was context of your whole discussion, not a translation of one of your sentences.

Next, yes, i'm not interested in things i don't use, so don't expect me being able to help in every problem you have, especially rejecting suggestion to use  other things as preffered and known to work.

Next, you were expecting help from me (us), hence my(our) discussion.

Next, yes, it was proffesional, as far as i asked you to talk to me on private
Comment 13 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 23:01:45 UTC
Created attachment 164663 [details]
whole log 

The other thing is, you prepared this snip as you haven't said anything after mkay unmuted you. So yet again - stop spreading rumor.
Comment 14 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 23:17:29 UTC
Hm, sorry. Looks like mkay didn't unmuted you.
Comment 15 Gall Anonim 2008-09-05 23:30:39 UTC
First of all... if you think likoski and i are single person, then you are wrong.
And now i have to aggrive you ... he never asked you for help, that was rather a general question dedicated to all people available at channel. Noone forced you to answer, noone forced you to discuss. I, personally never tell people to use other, working methods/software like you did. This is also forbidden by the channel guidelines. And yes, in my opinion you broken it. They are not simply suggestions for ops. They are also obligated to obey them as mentioned in rules for operators. What is more channel operator should giva an instance on how to behave. Please don't expect people not breaking rules, when channel operators do not obey them. I dont see any reason you have silenced him. I dont see any paragraph in guidelines he could break. You may say he spammed, but how could he, when off-topic conversations are allowed? You know people have different opinions about channel and i believe you should do your best to show they are not truth. Is that really hard to say 'sorry i cant help you?' instead of using profanities? Yes, 'ass' is profanity in my opinion and i expect at least ops to not use bad language. But as we can see if channel operator writes 'to jest taka mina jakby cis ie ktos na klate zessral' then better i will not comment that...
Last thing i would like to say is that i still believe your behave was unprofessional since you have silenced that guy just because he said you sad truth about channel's opinion between polish gentoo users, opinion he could, and probably heard from others...

P.S. " is used for quotations, isnt it? Please dont quote context as someone would treat it as quatation and/or translation. I write this with people who don't know polish in mind.
Comment 16 Dawid Węgliński (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-05 23:52:16 UTC
Meh. Sorry, that i misleaded him with you. Either way, the whole thing is we have rules which are like art for art's sake. Get rid, or obey them.
Comment 17 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-07 17:38:01 UTC
Okay.

This bug is INVALID since it isn't abuse when an operator enforces channel rules which are a product of an agreement and voting of majority of ops there.  

Our current channel rules consider all information about yawning, farting and similar (and we get a really big amount of those, enough to get annoyed with them) as irrelevant spam and until it's changed, you have to behave accordingly. If you don't like it, have fun on other channels. It's not obligatory to be on #gentoo-pl after all.

If cla or anyone else wishes to change the rule, he knows what to do (convince others to vote against it next time). There's no need to raise his personal issues with some ops here in this bug, it's irrelevant. He can raise them internally (I don't get why he didn't do that right away but instead waited a few months for a bug to appear).

Also, in the Userrel team, there's no single person who speaks Polish so attaching logs in Polish is both useless and very impolite. Please either take time to translate logs or don't attach them at all.

About Likoski's case, he pinged me on IRC, I'll talk to him and find out what his problem is (I've never seen that guy before) and what needs to be done for him to be happy again. His case is irrelevant to this bug either way.

I hope that satisfies all sides.
Comment 18 Łukasz Michalik 2008-09-08 07:28:24 UTC
(In reply to comment #17)
> If cla or anyone else wishes to change the rule, he knows what to do (convince
> others to vote against it next time).
I believe you are referring to the parts of this bug that are of minor importance.  What is pointed here is that #-pl ops do not care about rules they themselves raised and voted on.  Which is an awkward situation as you end up with people who found that some rule should be in place, but do not give example of abiding to it.  Also one of the provided logs seems to imply that operators think that part entitled `Zasady dla operatorów' (Rules for operators) is just a suggestion in contrast to `Zasady dla urzytkowników' (Rules for users) which is not.  If you want to enforce law of behaviour start with yourself as it looks a lot better.

> If you don't like it, have fun on other channels. It's not
> obligatory to be on #gentoo-pl after all.
Well, sure.  But #gentoo-* represents some brand.  If you do not care about how that brand is being presented to a given group of users maybe you should after all reconsider that approach.
Comment 19 Antek Grzymała (antoszka) 2008-09-08 08:23:53 UTC
(In reply to comment #18)

> I believe you are referring to the parts of this bug that are of minor
> importance.  What is pointed here is that #-pl ops do not care about rules they
> themselves raised and voted on.  Which is an awkward situation as you end up
> with people who found that some rule should be in place, but do not give
> example of abiding to it.  Also one of the provided logs seems to imply that
> operators think that part entitled `Zasady dla operatorów' (Rules for
> operators) is just a suggestion in contrast to `Zasady dla urzytkowników'
> (Rules for users) which is not.  If you want to enforce law of behaviour start
> with yourself as it looks a lot better.

OK. This needs some clearing up as there seems to be a lot of misreading and misunderstanding in this bug.

We (the ops) all agree that rules for users should be adhered to by *all* users and that obviously *includes* the ops. We try to do this, although sometimes we fail as any other human being (like cla, who quoted himself yawning in comment #5, earlier quotes are from before the voting on the change of the rules).

Now, to sum up, there *are* actually two sets of rules:

First, are the rules (channel guidelines) we voted on that define acceptable behaviour on the channel (for the general good and channel well-being) and are to be adhered by all including the ops (as said above).

Second, there are internal suggestions to the ops what to do with people who don't obey rules (these are the rules for the ops mentioned by ch4os and the source of misunderstanding later on). Now – since we're not your local police deparment – we may sometimes skip silencing someone, because we don't notice, or perhaps (as cla suggest) because some of us don't want to notice. The latter case obviously needs to be worked on, but we're aware of the problem. However we try to be fair, and are currently discussing the problem and we'll be trying to make sure offenses to the channel guidelines are acted upon fairly, which includes no banning before squelching (as rightly pointed out by Faustov), and banning ourselves out whenever we break the rules.

Hope this clears up things a little to all those insisting we live double standards (like the above commenter).

Best,
Comment 20 Antek Grzymała (antoszka) 2008-09-08 12:01:59 UTC
> Second, there are internal suggestions to the ops what to do with people who
> don't obey rules (these are the rules for the ops mentioned by ch4os and the
> source of misunderstanding later on).

Now, to make sure I'm not misunderstood, by calling the set of op-rules "suggestions" I did not mean that they can be abused. It's just suggestions the soft way. By this I meant that our role can not be being a full-time police for strictly enforcing the rules, as we are there primarily to help people with things they come up with.

So, if we "forget" to, say, silence some friends of ours, ping us, and we'll do our best to stay fair.

If we abuse the rules (by, again say, kicking someone straight away or for no apparaent reason) that's wrong and you have all right to come crying for help to other ops to get things sorted out.
Comment 21 Piotr Szymaniak 2008-09-09 07:19:31 UTC
08:45 +|+ Belliash [n=Belliash@dynamic-87-105-234-107.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #gentoo-pl
08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+o shpaq] by ChanServ
08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+b *!*=Belliash@*.ssp.dialog.net.pl] by shpaq
08:49 +|+ Belliash was kicked from #gentoo-pl by shpaq [shpaq]

Where's your rules here? |:
Comment 22 Michał Laszuk 2008-09-09 07:50:40 UTC
(In reply to comment #21)
> Where's your rules here? |:

http://dev.gentoo.org/~rane/regulamin.xml

Point 6 and 7. 
Comment 23 Piotr Szymaniak 2008-09-09 07:59:15 UTC
(In reply to comment #22)
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~rane/regulamin.xml
> 
> Point 6 and 7. 

3.11. When you punish someone *always* give a reason.
Comment 24 Michał Laszuk 2008-09-09 08:31:48 UTC
(In reply to comment #23)
> (In reply to comment #22)
> > http://dev.gentoo.org/~rane/regulamin.xml
> > 
> > Point 6 and 7. 
> 
> 3.11. When you punish someone *always* give a reason.
> 

That's right. I've missed it because i had terrible lag. ;/
Comment 25 Antek Grzymała (antoszka) 2008-09-09 08:35:52 UTC
(In reply to comment #21)
> 08:45 +|+ Belliash [n=Belliash@dynamic-87-105-234-107.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has
> joined #gentoo-pl
> 08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+o shpaq] by ChanServ
> 08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+b *!*=Belliash@*.ssp.dialog.net.pl] by shpaq
> 08:49 +|+ Belliash was kicked from #gentoo-pl by shpaq [shpaq]
> 
> Where's your rules here? |:

You are not giving any context here, however I suspect something may have gone not quite according to our rules. Would you mind showing as the context on IRC so that we can discuss the problem and perhaps not pollute the bug with particular cases anymore?
Comment 26 Michał Laszuk 2008-09-09 10:38:35 UTC
(In reply to comment #25)
> (In reply to comment #21)
> > 08:45 +|+ Belliash [n=Belliash@dynamic-87-105-234-107.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has
> > joined #gentoo-pl
> > 08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+o shpaq] by ChanServ
> > 08:49 +|+ mode/#gentoo-pl [+b *!*=Belliash@*.ssp.dialog.net.pl] by shpaq
> > 08:49 +|+ Belliash was kicked from #gentoo-pl by shpaq [shpaq]
> > 
> > Where's your rules here? |:
> 
> You are not giving any context here, however I suspect something may have gone
> not quite according to our rules. Would you mind showing as the context on IRC
> so that we can discuss the problem and perhaps not pollute the bug with
> particular cases anymore?
> 

Few days ago Belliash was using public away. It's against our rules. I've told him to not do that again ad he has started to argue with me and then he used it again. Then a gave him +q. Some time after that Belliash did it again and got banned on his hostmask as an effect. 

Today he entered the channel without his hostmask and i treated it as avoiding ban. That's the context. 

Actuelly, i wonder what this particular case has to do with this bug. There are two different cases and i find it unapproppiate to associate them with each other.
Comment 27 Gall Anonim 2008-09-09 19:47:19 UTC
http://wklej.org/id/3384/

Man got simply banned after he left without any reason for. He said he will never join that channel as it's useless and if he need any help he would go to #gentoo where would not get banned. Then he left and got banned. Any reason? No information about rule he had broken.
Comment 28 Damian Szeluga 2008-09-09 19:56:19 UTC
(In reply to comment #27)
> http://wklej.org/id/3384/
> 
> Man got simply banned after he left without any reason for. He said he will
> never join that channel as it's useless and if he need any help he would go to
> #gentoo where would not get banned. Then he left and got banned. Any reason? No
> information about rule he had broken.
> 

Yeah, you're right. Every single gentoo developer whose native language isn't polish, will understand the quote.
Comment 29 Patryk Rzadzinski 2008-09-22 06:45:13 UTC
Hi,

I've changed mind and decided to throw in just one more comment after a while of absence and reading through all the chat here. It's going to be short.

Dear USERREL or DEVREL: is there any way you could eliminate such rules from official Gentoo channels? By such I mean rules that have no sense (or faked one) but instead are created as future reasons for kicks and bans. As we know, way too many Polish IRC users have the mentality "I'm channel op, I'm better than others, I need to exercise it to show other users that _I_AM_BETTER_". For that they need such rules so that they can ban someone every now and then.
Comment 30 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-22 23:45:18 UTC
#gentoo-pl is far more liberal than #gentoo and most of other gentoo channels out there. We regularly help users of other distros, we even help windows users and nobody makes a fuss about it. Paludis is supported in -pl, contrary to our forums and #gentoo where you are forbidden to even ask about it. And so on. 

We have regular inflow of ubuntu users with their ubuntu problems from Polish ubuntu channel since they usually lack expertise to answer tougher questions in their channel and send people over to us. We are also more liberal about offtopic, we allow discussions in the whole area of Slashdot interest, there's been a lot of chatter about Hadron Collider recently for example. Try that on #gentoo.

Instead of bashing us for trying to reduce spam in the channel (like banning all those scripts saying what music someone is playing, or banning info on what physiological activites someone is planning to do), you should be grateful we're allowing far more than is allowed in most other gentoo channels out there.

This bug is as much INVALID for me as it was when it was filed. You guys failed to convince me why the rule should be changed.
Comment 31 Gall Anonim 2008-09-23 11:23:41 UTC
In reply to #30

But you arent banning people because of scripts saying what music someone is playing or so... You are banning for nothing and also breaking rules for ops.

21:09 < Likoski> nie widze dajszego sensu ani potrzeby przebywania na tym pseudo-kanale
21:09 -!- Likoski [n=likoski@unaffiliated/likoski] has left #gentoo-pl []
21:09 < rane> ;-)
21:09 < webczat> blagam,zrobcie mu cos :/
21:09 < rane> i dzieki bogu
21:09 < shpaq> rane++
21:09 < Damjanek> Pseudo kanal.
21:09 < Damjanek> Dziwne.
21:09 < Qlawy> webczat: pracuje nad tym
21:09 < shpaq> nie wiedzialem, ze to kiedykolwiek napisze ;/
21:09 < Qlawy> webczat: zaraz mu zrobie kuku
21:10 < Damjanek> Moi ircowi pseudotowarzysze.
21:10 < webczat> Qlawy: poczworne. wkurwil mnie poprostu ;)
21:10 < rane> zignoruj ;-)
21:10 -!- mode/#gentoo-pl [+o Qlawy] by ChanServ
21:11 -!- mode/#gentoo-pl [+trb %Likoski!*@*] by Qlawy

And even when you told Qlawy to ignore that situation he had to ban him without any reason (and he hasn't tell what was the reason for) to alleviate his complex of superiority and/or show that he has channel operator status there. But dont forget about few things:

* you asked him to ignore that
* he has no reason to ban him, has he? tell me please...
* he has not writen any reason for banning but in your terms we all see 'Ban to ostateczność. Banujcie tylko wtedy, gdy nie pomaga uciszenie czyniącego zło osobnika.' what stands for 'Dont ban. Ban is an extreme.'
* another poin of rules: 'Kiedy karzecie kogoś za przewinienia, podajcie jako powód adres tego dokumentu i punkt, który został naruszony.' what means 'If you are puniching someone, tell the addres of this document and point he broken'.

In my opinion Qlawy has broken both of that rules...
Point 13: 'Bądźcie profesjonalni i uprzejmi. Nie nadużywajcie władzy, bo zostanie wam odebrana.' - 'be professional and pleasant. Dont abuse privileges or it will be taken'...


NOW DEAR LUKASZ DAMENTKO... TAKE OP FROM QLAWY!!!
Comment 32 Gall Anonim 2008-09-23 11:27:42 UTC
and addon for #31:

21:09 < webczat> blagam,zrobcie mu cos :/ - 'Please, do something with him'
21:09 < rane> i dzieki bogu - 'God, thanks'
(...)
21:09 < Damjanek> Dziwne. - 'strange'
21:09 < Qlawy> webczat: pracuje nad tym 'i am working on it'...


Qlawy is turning webchat's dreams into reality, isnt he?
Is that a concert of wishes?

As i have already posted... i dont see any reason for banning him, so Qlawy abused his privileges...
Comment 33 Gall Anonim 2008-09-23 11:36:52 UTC
"Instead of bashing us for trying to reduce spam in the channel (like banning
all those scripts saying what music someone is playing, or banning info on what
physiological activites someone is planning to do), you should be grateful
we're allowing far more than is allowed in most other gentoo channels out
there."

You dont care about information someone is going pee?
I dont care about information rapidshare is down!

21:15 < webczat> nosz kurcz kurw ... rapidshare said: The server 225.rapidshare.com is momentarily not available.


BAN webchat too... why not? I would say that was a spam...
Comment 34 Damian Szeluga 2008-09-23 13:07:54 UTC
(In reply to comment #33)
> "Instead of bashing us for trying to reduce spam in the channel (like banning
> all those scripts saying what music someone is playing, or banning info on what
> physiological activites someone is planning to do), you should be grateful
> we're allowing far more than is allowed in most other gentoo channels out
> there."
> 
> You dont care about information someone is going pee?
> I dont care about information rapidshare is down!
> 
> 21:15 < webczat> nosz kurcz kurw ... rapidshare said: The server
> 225.rapidshare.com is momentarily not available.
> 
> 
> BAN webchat too... why not? I would say that was a spam...
> 

Your complains are getting more and more annoying. Quit it. 
Our channel policy have been posted by Łukasz. If you are having problems with our rules, feel free to /part #gentoo-pl and /join #gentoo. If they'll accept your constant complains, lucky you. We don't and we aren't planning to.

Regards,
Damian Szeluga
Comment 35 Michał Laszuk 2008-09-23 13:18:24 UTC
(In reply to comment #34)
> Your complains are getting more and more annoying. Quit it. 
> Our channel policy have been posted by Łukasz. If you are having problems with
> our rules, feel free to /part #gentoo-pl and /join #gentoo. If they'll accept
> your constant complains, lucky you. We don't and we aren't planning to.

Most probably they won't.
As rane said our rules ar far more liberal than other official gentoo channels, but it doesn't automatically means we can tolerate everything what users do. It's just impossible. So, i think there is no need to pulluting this bug with recent acts on #gentoo-pl. 

Comment 36 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-23 13:27:16 UTC
1. I didn't order Qlawy to ignore you. I told webczat to drop it after he expressed how annoyed he is with your behaviour. Read the line right before mine please. Defended you and that's how you pay me back.

2. You don't make the rules, we do. If you don't like what we allow in -pl and what we don't, please move on to #gentoo and have fun there. I don't understand why you want to be friends with us so badly anyway.
Comment 37 Gall Anonim 2008-09-23 15:44:40 UTC
ROTFL...

Thats all what i can say...
To sum up, Lukasz, you said "Instead of bashing us for trying to reduce spam in the channel (like banning all those scripts saying what music someone is playing, or banning info on what physiological activites someone is planning to do), you should be grateful we're allowing far more than is allowed in most other gentoo channels out there."

Ok... What in your opinion is yawning? I think it is physiological activity associated with tiredness, stress, overwork, lack of stimulation, boredom. And you can be sure i will not join your strange channel as i am not interested when you are yawning and when not...

2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist ziewa
2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> ziew
2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek ciągle ziewa
2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> ziew
================
2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist yawns
2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> yawn
2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek still yawning
2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> yawn


Due to piece of your statement i have quoted few times already you should not go and ban arachnist, damjanek, cla and yourself at the end!

SO STOP TALKING TRASH ABOUT REDUCING SPAM!
WE KNOW THAT EVERYTHING WE WRITE, YOU CONSIDER AS SPAM, BUT NOT THINGS YOU DO OR HAVE ALREADY DONE!

I ASKED YOU WHY LIKOSKI GOT BANNED... YOU HAVENT ANSWERED... WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR!? ALSO NOT ANSWERED! MAYBE NONE!?

if anyone here is funny, then only you!
Comment 38 Łukasz Damentko (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2008-09-23 15:58:41 UTC
1. Why Likoski got banned is between him and ops. If he wants you to know, he will tell you once you ask him. We won't since we consider it's none of your business.

2. My "yawn" was at 6 am four months ago when there was no rule about it yet so... you fail.

3. When you go that emotional with all that CAPS LOCK and insults, is also when I'm done talking to you. Have a nice life.

Userrel: I think you should close this bug as INVALID since channel rules are up to channel operators (policy) and our rules aren't any stricter than rules in most Gentoo channels (especially very strict #gentoo) out there.
Comment 39 Antek Grzymała (antoszka) 2008-09-23 16:03:50 UTC
> 2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist yawns
> 2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> yawn
> 2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek still yawning
> 2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> yawn

[...]

> SO STOP TALKING TRASH ABOUT REDUCING SPAM!
> WE KNOW THAT EVERYTHING WE WRITE, YOU CONSIDER AS SPAM,
> BUT NOT THINGS YOU DO OR HAVE ALREADY DONE!

I think your caps-lock key got stuck and you need to have your keyboard fixed.

Apart from that you're quoting yawns mostly from before we have voted against yawning. Heck, I don't even know what channel you're quoting. As to Likoski's case, if you read the whole bug you'll surely notice that we agreed on the fact that he may have been banned to eagerly and such cases are wrong.

Thank you for your attention and good luck with the keyboard.
Comment 40 Damian Szeluga 2008-09-23 16:23:39 UTC
(In reply to comment #37)
> 2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist ziewa
> 2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> ziew
> 2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek ciągle ziewa
> 2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> ziew
> ================
> 2008-09-03.log:07:47  * arachnist yawns
> 2008-07-09.log:06:08 < rane> yawn
> 2008-07-28.log:09:57  * Damjanek still yawning
> 2008-08-18.log:15:06 < cla> yawn
> 
> 
> Due to piece of your statement i have quoted few times already you should not
> go and ban arachnist, damjanek, cla and yourself at the end!

Look at the dates, Sherlok. Then point at enyone.
Comment 41 Damian Szeluga 2008-09-23 16:24:46 UTC
(In reply to comment #40)
> Look at the dates, Sherlok. Then point at enyone.
> 
s/lok/lock/
s/eny/any/

Comment 42 Patryk Rzadzinski 2008-09-23 16:40:17 UTC
Thanks for poluting this bugrep with tons of useless, offtopic comments. Since there's no chance someone will look at this and get rid of bankids once and for all, I lost interest too. Have a nice community.
Comment 43 Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto Gentoo Infrastructure gentoo-dev 2008-09-24 02:11:54 UTC
It's obvious that we're going nowhere with this bug.
As channel policies are up to the channel ops and we haven't been presented with clear evidence of user abuse on the channel, we'll have to close this as CANTFIX.

PS - All questions about op abuse, should be directed to the channel ops team.