Hello, Maybe you aware of it, but it seems that latest installcd (install-x86-minimal-2007.0-r1) lacks usbutils (lsusb). I did not find any bug related, but I may have missed something. lspci, lsusb are very important during installation to detect available hardware. As far as I remember it was available in previous installcd versions. Thanks!
It was only ever on the previous media due to hotplug/coldplug requiring it. Now that udev does all of that work, there's no need for them. We end up with pciutils because we need it for hwsetup, but there's no need for usbutils, at all. We can add usbutils, but I don't see a point as it doesn't provide any special functionality that we need and the ability for people to use lsusb isn't really that vital, as the same information is available via /proc and /sys and no tool on the minimal CD even uses it.
But the sys and proc do not provide ability to resolve device names (vendor, device), or show it in clear format. When one approach a new machine, the first two commands are lspci and lsusb... This is the quickest way to know what you are dealing with and if it worth to continue.
The Minimal InstallCD is an installation medium. The user does not need to read vendor information for USB devices to perform an installation. If a user thinks they need this, they're more than welcome to throw it into their install. As I said, no package on the CD requires it and it is not required for installation. As such, it is not a candidate for inclusion.
I wish we had some more people reviewing your radical votes. Before and during you install or compile the kernel you need to know which hardware you working with. This is not a matter of dependency, but usability (as usual). I don't understand what ntfs* is doing there, while a simple utility such as lsusb is not available. If you wish, I can find a lot more utilities that are not required in order for installation and still exist. Hardware detection related utilities do require for installation.
(In reply to comment #4) > I don't understand what ntfs* is doing there, while a simple utility such as > lsusb is not available. Guess ntfsresize is the argument here. Though it could be easily argued, that it's likely more safe to do so from within Windows. > Hardware detection related utilities do require for installation. Your argumentation is too abstract for me. Where's the use case not being able to install Gentoo without usbutils? That said - drop the gli and add usbutils and everything is fine... /me runs ;)
(In reply to comment #5) > > Hardware detection related utilities do require for installation. > > Your argumentation is too abstract for me. Where's the use case not being able > to install Gentoo without usbutils? Had to attach USB storage device, needed to know why it does not work. Had to attach USB network device. Had to see which wireless networking exists. Had to see if devices are relevant for linux installation, or it does not worth the effort. Just think of utilities needed to build a kernel on unknown hardware. Thanks!
Alon: While I understand that you have an opinion and can respect that, you must also learn to respect mine. There is nothing anywhere that says that just because you suggest something, that I have to do it. You need to understand this. I will not do something just because you want it. I will evaluate whether or not I feel it is a good change or not and work based on that evaluation. I have stated why this is not a candidate for inclusion using the same rules we have used for Release Engineering for quite some time. If you have a problem with it, I'm sorry, but we're not changing policy just because you think that you can bully someone by continuing to push your personal agenda. I don't know what I did to you, but your interactions with me have been less than pleasant and are getting rather annoying. Please realize that I am a volunteer just like yourself. Also realize that I've been doing this for a really long time and am pretty good at it. There are quite a few Release Engineering policies which are internally used to determine how the release process is done. These policies are reviewed by Release Engineering as a whole, so my "radical votes" are reviewed quite often. I asked you last time to take a step back and think before you respond to me. You are being pushy and I feel as if you are targeting some deep-seated aggression at me and I have no clue why. I am imploring you to quit this behavior. I don't have the time nor the energy to get into some kind of pissing match with you, nor will I. Please discontinue your constant harassment.
Let's revisit this. lsusb would be very helpful during installation.
(In reply to Ben Kohler from comment #8) > Let's revisit this. lsusb would be very helpful during installation. I tend to agree with Chris. This is something that anyone missing can just install after unpacking their stage3.
This is useful to identify/troubleshoot network adapters and possibly other hardware, before stage3 is able to be fetched.
This is fixed on the most recent x86 & amd64 installcds