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Bug 110711 - Missing Section "6.d" emerge -u world
Summary: Missing Section "6.d" emerge -u world
Alias: None
Product: [OLD] Docs-user
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Handbook (show other bugs)
Hardware: All Linux
: High normal (vote)
Assignee: Sven Vermeulen (RETIRED)
Depends on:
Reported: 2005-10-28 07:19 UTC by Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED)
Modified: 2005-12-26 08:36 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Package list:
Runtime testing required: ---


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Description Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-10-28 07:19:18 UTC
Just curious, but we used to tell people to run "emerge -u world" after stage3
and before the kernel on all networked installs.  What happened to this?

We probably also need to mention revdep-rebuild, python-updater, perl-cleaner,
and, as all of these could be required.  Basically, we're
leaving systems in a half-working state as stages get older.

A good example is this:

Use a stage3 tarball and follow the Handbook.  Once you boot your system, emerge
gnome.  It will fail on intltool, due to XML::Parser.

checking for XML::Parser... configure: error: XML::Parser perl module is
required for intltool
 !!! Please attach the config.log to your bug report:
 !!! /var/tmp/portage/intltool-0.34.1/work/intltool-0.34.1/config.log
 !!! ERROR: dev-util/intltool-0.34.1 failed.

Now, if emerge -u world and perl-cleaner modules had been run before the user
tried to "emerge gnome" then we would have had no issues.
Comment 1 Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-10-28 07:21:22 UTC
I forgot to mention that this should only be necessary after a stage3 tarball is
used, not when coming from stage1 or stage2.
Comment 2 Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-10-31 14:01:37 UTC
More info:  This would only affect a user doing a stage3 *networked*
installation.  Users doing a stage3 networkless would be unaffected by this, as
the tree would not have changed.  Stage1 and stage2 users are not affected
because their entire base system is built against their current portage tree,
rather than the release tree.
Comment 3 Sven Vermeulen (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-11-01 10:05:10 UTC
I disagree. One can very well update his system (--sync and -u world) after a
succesfull installation of Gentoo. Updating is no requirement during the
installation. The second part of the Gentoo Handbook explains how to use Portage
for the various tasks. One should really read this.
Comment 4 Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-11-01 10:24:58 UTC
Well, we are currently having issues in testing where one uses my example.  The
problem is that the perl version has changed and causes the perl modules to not
be found.

This *is* a bug and is causing failures.

I don't really like telling users to perform an update, either, but there's
definitely situations where it is necessary to get a proper system.  Perhaps
simply adding something to the end of the installation section of the Handbook
recommending users perform a world update would be sufficient?
Comment 5 Sven Vermeulen (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-11-01 11:21:24 UTC
In the "Where to go from here", there is a paragraph:

  You should definitely take a look at the next part of the Gentoo Handbook 
  entitled Working with Gentoo which explains how to keep your software up to 
  date, how to install more software, what USE flags are, how the Gentoo Init 
  system works, etc.
Comment 6 Chris Gianelloni (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-11-01 11:47:27 UTC
I think the wording needs to be stronger than that, personally.  Like I said,
I'm seeing reports of users getting broken systems.  I think it should have
something more along the lines of:

"You will definitely want to update your system to the latest versions of your
installed software.  Instructions are in the next part of the Gentoo Handbook 
entitled Working with Gentoo which explains how to keep your software up to 
date, how to install more software, what USE flags are, how the Gentoo Init 
system works, etc."

The problem is that the user now has a "system" that was built against a
specific snapshot, while newer packages build against a newer snapshot.  This
causes issues if anything in "system" that requires manual intervention has been
updated, such as perl, gcc, or python.
Comment 7 Sven Vermeulen (RETIRED) gentoo-dev 2005-12-26 08:36:35 UTC
There will always be issues with the installation. If the problems you're seeing come from the installation of more recent ebuilds wrt the packages of the system; we should recommend to run "emerge --emptytree world" every time the user has "emerge --sync"ed.

Yes I'm overreacting here, but users who don't update their system anyway are screwed. I really don't see the need to put this more in the Gentoo Handbook than it is today. 

If we would put an "emerge -uD world" in the installation instructions, we're quite far away since that might trigger more problems, some temporary (Portage tree brokeness), some permanent (ebuilds that require manual interaction). It is impossible to document every possible item in the Handbook in its current form: you'll need to rewrite the Handbook so it focuses on Gentoo management and only at the end on Gentoo installations.

Putting a stronger wording at the end won't do much either - every Gentoo user searches for the "emerge --update world" command quite soon after his succesful installation.