Bug 392743 – Implicit assumptions -> confusion when trying to use printer on a Win7 machine

• Product: [OLD] Docs on www.gentoo.org
• Status: RESOLVED OBSOLETE

[Description Amnon Harel 2011-12-01 16:51:06 UTC]

Caveat: I'm not an expert, which is why I tried reading the guides. After a day reading them and more, and trying, I got my printer test page to print. Here's the main thing I learned:
This document, and the related http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml
are invaluable. They gave a ton of crucial, hard to find information. But for most of their text they are written with the implicit assumption that the reader wants to install a samba server. For someone who just wants to print on a printer connected to a Win7 machine (for short, to JWPW)
(right now, home setup, occasionally, a work place setting), 
this causes lots of confusion:
1) Should I even be reading this document? Why should I install samba? If I JWPW, do I NEED samba? 
To add to the confusion, external website (wikipedia, samba) describe samba as a server, where as a JWPW I'm looking for a samba client, since the Windows machine is the server.
The overview is also quite clear that samba is only to be installed as a server.
BTW: I'm still not 100% sure what the answer is

2) I happen to have an HP printer. It was not clear from the requirements if I need hplip even when the printer is remote. (having read about the underlying logic, it's clear that it is, but please state that).

3) Buried inside the direct-connection oriented HPLIP section of the printing guide are several USE flags, both for cups and hplip that are for networked printers. The instructions in this document (Section 3, comment in requirements) don't mention these flags, giving a false sense of security that those packages are correctly installed.

3b) The section "Installing a printer for and with CUPS" is irrelevant with HP, since hplib provides the PPD.

4) There are very few diagnostics being offered in the two documents. So when things went wrong I had to go surf around picking up random diagnostic tidbits. E.g. smbclient from the command line, gs -h to check for cups, location of cuts error log and how to get more information.

5) testparm complained about "rlimit_max: increasing rlimit_max (1024) to minimum Windows limit (16384)", which sounded scary until I found this comforting fact in the man page
"If the file was loaded OK, the program then dumps all known service details to stdout." This fact is worth mentioning in the guide - if you see the service details, the config file is self-consistent.

6) Section 5 sounds like it should contain the information I was looking for (I'm trying to get a unix client to the win server), but contains NOTHING relevant, probably because it assumes a samba (non-Win) server and non-HP printer. I don't know what the mounting is for. I didn't need it.

7) In the printing guide, the "CUPS web interface" is defined on the first usage, but reading about a remote configuration, I skipped that and had to find that information elsewhere. Maybe that's just me. Or maybe it's better to have a link to the page when that term is used? (it's only to localhost...)

8) In the printing guide, the "Setting Up a Remote Printer" section starts with
"If the printers are attached to a remote CUPS-powered server". What does that mean? Does windows count (that is, I just want to print to a printer connected to a windows machine, should I read this section)? If not, where are my instructions?

I apologize if this list seems whiny.
I realize that "printing is evil", that decade old design flaws in X are the seed of evil here (add MS if you wish), and that a quick setup guide is not the place to go over all how everything works together. But it seems that a bit more context is needed in these two guides.

Reproducible: Always




ahx cups # lpstat -v
device for Officejet_6500_e710n-z: smb://HOME11/HP%20Officejet%206500%20E710n-z

[Comment 1 Chema Alonso Josa (RETIRED) 2011-12-28 20:45:00 UTC]

(In reply to comment #0)

> 1) Should I even be reading this document? Why should I install samba? If I
> JWPW, do I NEED samba? 
> ...

I think you don't need Samba to print from Windows, provided the printer is Postfix capable. But I really can't test that.

> 2) I happen to have an HP printer. It was not clear from the requirements if I
> need hplip even when the printer is remote. (having read about the underlying
> ...

I own an HP printer too. You need to install net-print/hplip in the box you are attaching the printer to. If the printer is remote, you have to tune /etc/cups/client.conf as described in:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml#setup_remote

> 3) Buried inside the direct-connection oriented HPLIP section of the printing
> ...
> 3b) The section "Installing a printer for and with CUPS" is irrelevant with HP,
> ...

Attached patch to explain this more clearly. Please, review it and include your comments.

> 4) There are very few diagnostics being offered in the two documents. So when
> ...

In relation to CUPS, I think the section "Testing and Reconfiguring the Printer"
provides enough information to find out why CUPS is not working.
I am not acquitanced with Samba, but it uses smbclient in the "Checking our services" section to check for shares. 

> 5) testparm complained about "rlimit_max: increasing rlimit_max (1024) to
> minimum Windows limit (16384)", which sounded scary until I found this
> ... 

Included in the attached patch.

> 6) Section 5 sounds like it should contain the information I was looking for
> ... 

It describes how to configure a printer and mount a shared resource, two basic things in a Samba network. What do you suggest to add here?

> 7) In the printing guide, the "CUPS web interface" is defined on the first
> usage, but reading about a remote configuration, I skipped that and had to find
> ... 

IMO, it is not necessary to repeat the link to the cups server along the guide. If you are going to configure a printer, you can't miss it, it is in the first paragraph of "Installing a printer".

> 8) In the printing guide, the "Setting Up a Remote Printer" section starts with
> ...
 
This section is about printers not clients. Printing from Windows is described in section 6.

> I apologize if this list seems whiny.

No worries. Thanks for reporting.

[Comment 2 Chema Alonso Josa (RETIRED) 2011-12-28 20:47:07 UTC]

Created attachment 297245 [details, diff]
Describes printer installation in more detail. Describes testparm warning

[Comment 3 Amnon Harel 2011-12-29 01:31:50 UTC]

Dear Chema,

There's not a lot more I can suggest, since I'm not an expert. E.g. I thought I needed the samba installation. This is a key point, but I'm too scared to test it. One day setting up printing was too much for my schedule :-)

2) My point was that when you make an explicit list, it is implied that it is
complete, and nothing else belong there. For HP printers, hplip should be
installed, just like net-fs/samba and the other packages on this list.
BTW: I'm not sure the title "requirements" fits. These are more "things we'll
need to get ready", where as "requirements" sounds like prerequisites 
to get started. Perhaps "Printing requires:" is a better title.

6) There's an organization problem here. Again, for a newbie looking
to install a client on gentoo that'll use a printer connected to a windows
machine ("the server"?). From the table of content, it sounds like "config" 
means all stages of installation and configuration. So it sounds like only
Section 5 is relevant.
But things like "installing a printer" only appear under "4. Server configuration",
and hplip, which I needed on the client, appears in "3. Server Software Installation".

 cheers,
 Amnon

[Comment 4 Sven Vermeulen (RETIRED) 2013-07-23 13:40:52 UTC]

Hi guys,

Sorry for the extremely late reaction. We've been hurt by a lack of resources, but improvements are coming ;-) One of the steps is that we're moving documentation to the Gentoo Wiki, including this document. So any comments or feedback -> you can immediately edit https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Samba/HOWTO.