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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 01:37:33 +0200
From: Xavier Neys <neysx@gentoo.org>
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Subject: Re: [gentoo-doc-fi] Status of the Mailing List

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Flammie Pirinen wrote:
> Ahh, I'm trying to come up with a smooth way for translators to translate and reviewers to do QA, if I can't justify use of mailing list over not using mailing list that step will seem unnecessary. The ideal process of participating is not 1) Register to forum, 2) Register to bugzilla, 3) Register to this this and this mailing list, 4) Register to Freenode 5) Register to get-rich-quick-scheme, 6) start translating/reading. The shorter the merrier.

1) plays no part in the translation process
2) yes
3) only gentoo-doc-fi for translators. There are many other lists, each for a 
well-defined purpose. Using a single gentoo mailing list would not be 
acceptable. Look at -dev -core ...blah blah
4) not required at all. Only official devs need to be registered to be 
identified on #gentoo-dev. You can use any IM system you want, or none.
5) can I get the address?
6) should be expected

So it's just about registering on bugs.g.o and gentoo-doc-fi once.
Then notify (not even required, but avoids double work), get .xml, read, 
translate, post translation to bugs.g.o.

> Of course I can leave the list hanging in here and reference it from the participating instructions, but I do afraid that most users will prefer IRC or forum, if at all.
> 
>>>Well, it is possible to use this list as -announce, it won't really be more useful than keeping web pages up to date tho'.
>>
>>French translators do talk to each other via their mailing list. There is 
>>nothing that could replace the ML.
>>Have a loot at 
>>http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.documentation.french/cutoff=309
>>Traffic is low but it is very useful.
> 
> It seems to me that the discussion you are referring to would actually benefit if the raw xml had originally been posted to the mailing list. I see that someone has gone through the problem of manually copy pasting excerpts from the xml file anyways, that is, while still functional, also more work. But that's just that I'm less acquainted to working with bugzilla than I am with email.

Not sure what you mean. The link does not point to a discussion, it points to 
the full archive. Bits of English in some posts is to be expected. How would 
talk about the right way to translate "package" without using the English word 
"package"? If you mean the full line <title>.... that I quoted as not being in 
French, I did not have to, I could have said "title not in French", but 
triple-left-click to copy a line and middle-click to paste is hardly a lot of 
work.

>>>It'd also help if originals had, albeit unnecessarily, lang="en" in them (or even better, mark lang #REQUIRED in dtd, as it clearly is such).
>>
>>That's a clear No.
>>English is the default and that's why it does not have to be in all docs and 
>>why it is #IMPLIED. We have almost 1,000 .xml English files. Try to tell 
>>everyone that they have to add lang="en" because English is not the default 
>>language anymore...
> 
> The updating 1000 xml files is as hard as sedding s/<guide(...)>/<guide\1 lang="en">/gi. English has never been default language, quoting from dtd

When x=1 is the default, you do not write x=1 all over your sources.
You forgot the committing part and it includes the fixing of all those docs 
that are not DTD compliant yet because DTD has been enforced only for a few 
months.
English has always been the default language, especially when it was the only 
one. This attribute has been added only to allow translations to specify their 
language.

>           lang         CDATA #IMPLIED>
> that is, not
> 	lang CDATA 'en'>
> so, there's a bug anyways :-)

Not much of a bug as it makes no difference at all but I agree it would be 
better even though the stylesheet would still default to English for 
unsupported languages or untranslated inserts.

> And someone still keeps claiming xml is well-defined and semantic :D

Is it?


Cheers,
-- 
/  Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/  French & Internationalisation Lead
\  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en
/\

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