Bugzilla Bug 84947

Hi. If there is confusion of terminology, sorry. I'm new to Gentoo.

I love sawfish, but I don't need Gnome.

This is not exactly a bug, but for me, sawfish depends too much on gnome
libraries, i.e., the latest ebuild of sawfish
([b]sawfish-1.3.20040120.ebuild[/b]) and rep-gtk ([b]rep-gtk-0.18.ebuild[/b])
can be fixed, since:

sawfish: 
  Does not necessarily need [b]media-libs/audiofile[/b].
Furthermore, since it is configured to use gdk-pixbuf,
it does not need imlib anymore.
(It may seem to be an option, but not exactly. The latest
sawfish ebuild depends on rep-gtk-0.17, which needs gdk-pixbuf,
no more imlib. So, the latter is redundant.)

rep-gtk: 
  does not necessarily need:
   [b]gnome-base/libbonobo-2.0.0
   gnome-base/libbonoboui-2.0.0
   gnome-base/libgnome-2.0.0
   gnome-base/libgnomeui-2.0.0
   gnome-base/libgnomecanvas-2.0.0
   gnome-base/libglade-2.0.0[/b]

They can be options.

As for rep-gtk, since these are all gnome components, a good criterion
of dependency must be [b]gnome[/b], which can be added into IUSE.

I'm not sure what to do for audiofile. It's required by gnome,
but it seems to be an independent library. So it may be IUES'ed.

# [b]use.desc[/b] tells that the USE flag can use [b]audiofile[/b], 
# but to tell you the truth, the latest one does not [b]PROVIDE[/b] the flag.
# It is another problem, and I will ask audiofile people to fix it.

Of course, arguments to configure scripts have to be fixed.

I'm actually satisfied with the minimal installtion,
with only librep, rep-gtk, and sawfish.

Thanks anyway.


Reproducible: Always
Steps to Reproduce:
1.
2.
3.

See Bug 12512. The "reason" is that people who cannot decide whether they want
Gnome (emerge gnome) or do not want Gnome (USE="-gnome") are probably much more
important than people who do know what they want. 

Maybe some developers have a more sane attitude now than two years ago, so good
luck. ;-)

wrongly assigned.

@comment #1, your comment shows you have no clue how gnome usage evolved over
time, it never was a luxury choice. Your demeaning attitude has no place on
bugzilla, not now, not ever.

(In reply to comment #2)
> @comment #1, your comment shows you have no clue how gnome usage evolved over
> time, it never was a luxury choice. Your demeaning attitude has no place on
> bugzilla, not now, not ever.

Uhm, not really. Reasoning like in Bug 12512, Comment #5

>USE="-gnome -kde -qt -kde -qtk -X" emerge gnome and it will fail, since rep-gtk
is built without gnome

is plain ridiculous - are we going to introduce bloated dependencies like gnome
just because of people that do not have even the slightest clue what are they
setting in their use flags? You can

(In reply to comment #2)
> @comment #1, your comment shows you have no clue how gnome usage evolved over
> time, it never was a luxury choice. Your demeaning attitude has no place on
> bugzilla, not now, not ever.

Uhm, not really. Reasoning like in Bug 12512, Comment #5

>USE="-gnome -kde -qt -kde -qtk -X" emerge gnome and it will fail, since rep-gtk
is built without gnome

is plain ridiculous - are we going to introduce bloated dependencies like gnome
just because of people that do not have even the slightest clue what are they
setting in their use flags? You can´t be serious. 

What do you mean - demeaning? These people just don´t wont Gnome, is that
demeaning? What does it mean "luxury choice"? Unneeded bloated dependencies -
sure. It´s more and more difficult to keep your system gnome-free - things like
gtk+, glib etc. are finding their way into the system in most obscure ways, even
on servers that have never seen anything GUI-related. Some people just don´t
want that, is it so hard to understand? I´m not really suprised that people do
not like to compile a half of gnome just to get sawfish.

You really don't get it, but I'm not going over dead cows once again for no
apperant reason. Sawfish is dead, it's just still here for ppl who enjoyed using
it in the past, get over it.

'demeaning' had nothing todo with what you said, but the way you said it. The
attitude you've displayed so far is more counterproductive than anything else.

glib is btw a very generic library happily used by a lot of non-gui projects
outside of the gtk/gnome region, no surprise it is on many a system.

 If you don't like to get involved, just ignore. If there's someone,
or the one appear in the future who voluntarily fix it, then this
will be fixed.
 A post is just a string of letters, at least, a note, often, 
a source of humanship welfare, by chance. It's the way the internet is.

 Oh, if you think you're suffering from silly requests, then why don't you ask
gentoo handbook maintainers to delete the setence, 
"We try not to force you onto anything you don't like. If you feel like we
do, please bugreport it."
 It is quite probable that newcomers read this, and believe it naively.
--------------------------------------------------
 I have posted all the stuffs at once, and now I know I was too simple. 
Let me make the things clear by breaking up the problem into pieces.

1. A minor bug: sawfish's dependency on imlib should be removed.
   It is now replaced by gdk-pixbuf, but the sawfish ebuild still
 remains depending on imlib.
   When this is done, this thread may well be closed as fixed.

2. Marginal; perhaps not a bug; sawfish depends on audiofile.
   Please see Bug 88000. One turned down my heartful imploration :)
 by claiming that audiofile's ebuild will remain not providing USE flag
 "audiofile". Thus, there's no room for sawfish to depend optionally on 
 audiofile.
   Forget this as for now. Not a catastrophe.

3. Source of controversy, but no easy way-out: rep-gtk heavily depends
   on gnome libraries.
  Thanks for pointing out the problems. I think the relevant points have
 nearly been exhausted, and here is not the apropriate place to discuss it
 any more. Better open a forum thread.

(In reply to comment #4)
> Sawfish is dead, it's just still here for ppl who enjoyed using
> it in the past, get over it.

OK, mark it WONTFIX then...

> The attitude you've displayed so far is more counterproductive than anything else.

Not interested in another gnome-related flamewar. Bugs should be marked WONTFIX
for a sane reason - which was definitely not the case with Bug 12512.

P.S. While it seems that someone from the Gnome team actually listens here,
could you for heaven

(In reply to comment #4)
> Sawfish is dead, it's just still here for ppl who enjoyed using
> it in the past, get over it.

OK, mark it WONTFIX then...

> The attitude you've displayed so far is more counterproductive than anything else.

Not interested in another gnome-related flamewar. Bugs should be marked WONTFIX
for a sane reason - which was definitely not the case with Bug 12512.

P.S. While it seems that someone from the Gnome team actually listens here,
could you for heaven´s sake finally fix Bug 46357 instead of letting it rot out?

Seems obvious enough, no reason to include the deps unless USE=gnome (or
USE=audiofile for that one).  Fixed now in cvs:

http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/x11-libs/rep-gtk/rep-gtk-0.18-r2.ebuild?r1=1.1&r2=1.2
http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/x11-wm/sawfish/sawfish-1.3.20040120-r1.ebuild?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup