Created attachment 375834 [details] gnome2-mask Attached list is a start point, there are still some things missing: - There are some packages that optionally rdepend on old gnome-panel for applets. What should we do with them? Mask offending USE flag? Remove the support in ebuilds completely (I would do that)? In that case, would we need to revbump them for this USE removal and fast stabilize them? (I would probably opt for sending them directly to stable too) - We need to wait for a new round of stabilizations to clean completely the keywording mixes in "exotic" arches, I am working on that list currently
Created attachment 375840 [details] gnome2-mask -r1 I forgot old evolution
Created attachment 375842 [details] gnome2-mask -r1
For a start, this doesn't affect MATE desktop, which is nice; has a repoman dependency check regression check been done on the reverse dependencies?
I am doing it shortly, this is for start to prepare the list as we need to play with some use.mask (or use removals) as explained and a newer stabilization list is needed too to let us drop some really old versions in some arches.
*** Bug 482332 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 376708 [details] gnome2-mask updated list
*** Bug 450236 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 486808 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 377202 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 377602 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 379422 [details] gnome2-mask updated version
Created attachment 380076 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 380082 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 380162 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 380166 [details] gnome2-mask
Created attachment 380260 [details] gnome2-mask
I just noticed that gnome-extra/gnome-audio-2.22 is pmasked In my gnome-3.12 system still presented autostart entry "libcanberra-login-sound.desktop" with command /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play --id="login" --description="GNOME Login" Are there any alternatives for this package contains login sound?
*** Bug 525096 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
This breaks KDE. :( See bug 525096
(In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #19) > This breaks KDE. :( > See bug 525096 I don't see any KDE app depending on system-config-printer-common: http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/app-admin/system-config-printer-common
(In reply to nE0sIghT from comment #17) > I just noticed that gnome-extra/gnome-audio-2.22 is pmasked > In my gnome-3.12 system still presented autostart entry > "libcanberra-login-sound.desktop" with command /usr/bin/canberra-gtk-play > --id="login" --description="GNOME Login" > > Are there any alternatives for this package contains login sound? It should have been provided by sound-theme-freedesktop, and it was in past versions, but later removed by upstream on purpose: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538617 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538617#c14
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #20) > (In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #19) > > This breaks KDE. :( > > See bug 525096 > > I don't see any KDE app depending on system-config-printer-common: > http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/app-admin/system-config- > printer-common kde-base/print-manager http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/app-admin/system-config-printer-gnome
(In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #22) > kde-base/print-manager > > http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/app-admin/system-config- > printer-gnome RDEPEND=" ${PYTHON_DEPS} ~app-admin/system-config-printer-common-${PV} - dev-python/notify-python + dev-python/pycairo[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] >=dev-python/pycups-1.9.60[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] - >=dev-python/pygtk-2.4 - gnome-keyring? ( gnome-base/libgnome-keyring ) + dev-python/pygobject:3[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] + x11-libs/gtk+:3[introspection] + x11-libs/libnotify[introspection] + x11-libs/pango[introspection] + gnome-keyring? ( gnome-base/libgnome-keyring[introspection] ) " I would try USE -gnome-keyring for that, please see if that help to avoid other gnome tools :|
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #23) > (In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #22) > > kde-base/print-manager > > > > http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/app-admin/system-config- > > printer-gnome > > RDEPEND=" > ${PYTHON_DEPS} > ~app-admin/system-config-printer-common-${PV} > - dev-python/notify-python > + dev-python/pycairo[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] > >=dev-python/pycups-1.9.60[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] > - >=dev-python/pygtk-2.4 > - gnome-keyring? ( gnome-base/libgnome-keyring ) > + dev-python/pygobject:3[${PYTHON_USEDEP}] > + x11-libs/gtk+:3[introspection] > + x11-libs/libnotify[introspection] > + x11-libs/pango[introspection] > + gnome-keyring? ( gnome-base/libgnome-keyring[introspection] ) > " > > I would try USE -gnome-keyring for that, please see if that help to avoid > other gnome tools :| I don't really want to have to install pygobject or [introspection] (which I have masked to avoid accidentally installing) either... :/
Please at least keep gnome-base/gconf: x4 ~ # equery d gconf * These packages depend on gconf: app-editors/emacs-24.3-r6 (gconf ? >=gnome-base/gconf-2.26.2) app-office/libreoffice-4.3.1.2 (gnome ? gnome-base/gconf:2) media-gfx/gnofract4d-3.14 (>=gnome-base/gconf-2) www-client/chromium-40.0.2182.3 (gnome ? >=gnome-base/gconf-2.24.0) x11-libs/wxGTK-2.8.12.1-r1 (gstreamer ? gnome-base/gconf:2)
gconf is just as deprecated as the rest of gnome2, projects using it ought to migrate to dconf. dconf is over 4 years old and as been really stable at what it is doing.
Just removing the system-config-printer packages doesn't seem to affect KDE actually working, with exception to an error message that seems to have no other ill effects. Maybe a USE flag for those of us who would rather tolerate a rare and easily ignored error message?
(In reply to Gilles Dartiguelongue from comment #26) > gconf is just as deprecated as the rest of gnome2, projects using it ought > to migrate to dconf. dconf is over 4 years old and as been really stable at > what it is doing. You are hopefully aware that there are people out there that have gtk+-3 masked and don't want to use it? Forcing them to use gtk+-3, just because you like to remove some applications that are running perfectly well, is a bit over the top.
(In reply to octoploid from comment #28) > You are hopefully aware that there are people out there that have > gtk+-3 masked and don't want to use it? > > Forcing them to use gtk+-3, just because you like to remove some > applications that are running perfectly well, is a bit over the top. "Running perfectly well" is not sufficient unless they are also being maintained, which I guess isn't the case anymore? Are any of these applications (or yourself perhaps) willing to maintain gconf 2?
(In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #29) > (In reply to octoploid from comment #28) > > You are hopefully aware that there are people out there that have > > gtk+-3 masked and don't want to use it? > > > > Forcing them to use gtk+-3, just because you like to remove some > > applications that are running perfectly well, is a bit over the top. > > "Running perfectly well" is not sufficient unless they are also being > maintained, which I guess isn't the case anymore? Are any of these > applications (or yourself perhaps) willing to maintain gconf 2? Well, as long as third party applications depend on gconf-2 you simply cannot remove it from the tree.
(In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #24) [...] > I don't really want to have to install pygobject or [introspection] (which I > have masked to avoid accidentally installing) either... :/ We cannot support that setup at all, do you know the other alternatives you are keeping are completely unmaintained and buggy for years? (In reply to octoploid from comment #25) > Please at least keep gnome-base/gconf: It's kept -> gconf-3.2.6-r3 (it's a version "3" but compatible with 2 and, then, on the same slot)
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #31) > (In reply to octoploid from comment #25) > > Please at least keep gnome-base/gconf: > > It's kept -> gconf-3.2.6-r3 (it's a version "3" but compatible with 2 and, > then, on the same slot) Have you read comment 28? > You are hopefully aware that there are people out there that have > gtk+-3 masked and don't want to use it? > > Forcing them to use gtk+-3, just because you like to remove some > applications that are running perfectly well, is a bit over the top.
How many years do you pretend to keep avoiding gtk3? More and more apps will migrate to it since gtk2 is only in maintainance mode for years :|
*** Bug 525124 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #33) > How many years do you pretend to keep avoiding gtk3? More and more apps will > migrate to it since gtk2 is only in maintainance mode for years :| You could make exactly the same argument for systemd... The only reason to use Gentoo is that it allows one to avoid crap software easily. Take away that ability and you cripple the raison d'être of Gentoo. Also major applications like Firefox, Chromium and Libreoffice still use gtk2 for very good reasons.
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #31) > (In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #24) > [...] > > I don't really want to have to install pygobject or [introspection] (which I > > have masked to avoid accidentally installing) either... :/ > > We cannot support that setup at all, do you know the other alternatives you > are keeping are completely unmaintained and buggy for years? How about making the KDE dependency on system-config-printer entirely optional then? As mentioned, it seems to basically work without it.
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #33) > How many years do you pretend to keep avoiding gtk3? More and more apps will > migrate to it since gtk2 is only in maintainance mode for years :| Why should they? Maintainance mode is fine for app developers. gtk2 is rock solid, does not suffer from sudden interface changes, offers all you usually need, and is smaller and faster (and security bugs do get fixed). gtk2 has many themes (including the default) which meet all regulations and requirements concerning accessability. Due to firefox, chromium etc., gtk2 is present on any system, and it is possible to build a feature-complete linux system with gtk2 only. gtk3 still changes interfaces with no announcement even after 7 years of development, tends to break your themes and layouts every 6 month, and is controlled by a small number of braindamaged people who do not care at all about their users nor about any project outside gnome (they don't even listen) and take away their user's freedom. gtk3 is usually not present on xfce, mate or other minimal systems, and it will not be possible to build a feature-complete linux system with gtk3 only for some time. gtk3 development does not seem to care about accessability or uncommon input situations, its themes violate many of the basic gui design rules. So if you are not using gnome or working on a gnome project, gtk3 is about the worst platform to work with, and gtk2 is the plattform causing significantly less trouble. wxWidgets has been ported to gtk3 (they had a fully working prototype), and than back to gtk2 because gtk3 was too much trouble to follow. claws mail stopped gtk3 porting efforts as far as I know, same for firefox. geany has considered porting to gtk3, and rejected it. So yes, gtk2 is here to stay, and yes, gentoo needs to offer all the apps needed for a feature-complete gtk2 only environment, no matter if based on xfce, mate, or something else. You may remove the gnome specific parts of gnome 2, but everything useful outside gnome should be kept as long as it works.
(In reply to Luke-Jr from comment #36) [...] > How about making the KDE dependency on system-config-printer entirely > optional then? As mentioned, it seems to basically work without it. That is beyond my knowledge about the package, please open a separate bug report for that kde package that looks to not really require the dep :)
Regarding all the gtk2 vs. gtk3, it has been discussed at bug 374057
Regarding gconf vs. dconf, there is nothing related to gtk in there. If you are talking about the editors, well we cannot help you. Upstream wrote a perfectly useful command line tool to deal with that. The fact that we are removing gnome2 does not mean we are trashing gtk2 yet, so stop crying out loud, it is just the wrong place and the wrong debate.
(In reply to Gilles Dartiguelongue from comment #40) > The fact that we are removing gnome2 does not mean we are trashing gtk2 yet, > so stop crying out loud, it is just the wrong place and the wrong debate. You misunderstood me: As I said in #37, I've nothing against removing gnome 2 and anything working in gnome2 only. Also, I don't want to continue the gtk2 / gtk3 debate. I just vote against removing gnome2 apps which are useful and widely used in non-gnome (xfce, icewm, ...) environments, especially if there is no equivalent substitute. Those non-gnome gtk2 environments will be around for years, and they always relied on the availability of gnome2 applications, so taking away these applications cripples those environments. For example, evince has zero dependencies on gnome (except for gnome-doc-utils) when built with the appropriate use flags, and is the primary pdf reader on almost all gtk2-based platforms. And as other distributions supporting xfce are in the same situation, I'm confident that ugly bugs e.g. in evince will still get fixed.
There is no vote to be held. We announced long ago that Gnome 2 is going away, and so are all of its components. Of course there are some limitations due to other ebuild dependencies but most of them were fixed and that is why we have a mask now. You have to understand that no amount of user complaint is going to change that as unfortunately, all complaints only lead to 0 actual involvement into the project to make things change. You can check the forums and the mailing list for reference. A package needs to have a maintainer to keep going, but this is not happening for Gnome 2. A few people gathered to introduce cinnamon to the tree, but that still not going to fix everything. I know this does not sound really positive statements, but you just have to move on and file bug reports to upstream if you are dissatisfied with their products. We did our job trying to keep them alive for as long as possible, but this is over now.
(In reply to Gilles Dartiguelongue from comment #42) > I know this does not sound really positive statements, but you just have to > move on and file bug reports to upstream if you are dissatisfied with their > products. 1.) That's exactly the problem with gnome3. They are not listening. For example, the regression bug that toolbar customization was removed and is needed in evince was opened almost 2 years ago (692969), and it has several followers and comments. Zero reaction, bug state is still "unconfirmed". Hence, I have to rely on my linux distribution (or on mate in this case) to offer choices and alternatives, and that's why I'm using gentoo. For example, the KDE team is still keeping kmail 4.4.x alive, which is about as old as gnome2, because any more recent version has problems upstream refuses to look into. 2.) One of the main advantages of linux is that one does not have to move on. Microsoft forces you to buy new hardware and software every second year. Linux should not. At our university, this results in many old PC's for our students which have linux installed after these PC's are too old to run any supported windows version. But I agree that the tree should not contain unmaintained ebuilds.
Uuh, i just saw that hamster-applet was scheduled for removal - what should i use instead? The suggested replacement doesnt provide any functionality I could find that would even remotely do as an alternative.. And now I come to bit myself in the arse :-) Because... The project hamster applet is actually very badly integrated with gnome 3, so on that basis it is horrible to use.. But i have little alternative except starting a new time applet project myself.
!!! The following installed packages are masked: - net-libs/farsight2-0.0.31::gentoo (masked by: package.mask) /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask: # Pacho Ramos <pacho@gentoo.org> (11 Oct 2014) # Masked for removal in a month. # Obsolete and unmaintained for years. You should switch # to one of the many available alternatives like (#508854): # - >=gnome-base/gnome-3.12 (either with standard or 'Classic' modes) # - gnome-extra/cinnamon # - mate-base/mate # - xfce-base/xfce4-meta # - ... [...meanwhile...] [root@fuji-02 ~]# equery d farsight2 * These packages depend on farsight2: net-im/pidgin-2.10.9-r1 (gstreamer ? net-libs/farsight2) [root@fuji-02 ~]# Should I get rid of gstreamer? Or does the Pidgin ebuild merely need fixing? Thanks.
The dependency from pidgin is: || ( net-libs/farstream:0.1 net-libs/farsight2 ) In my case portage moved to the first one long time ago (I can't remember if he switched to the first by itself of what exactly :S) but, in summary, you would need to "emerge -1 net-libs/farstream:0.1" and, probably, "emerge --deselect net-libs/farsight2" (to ensure net-libs/farsight2 is dropped from your world file if it was there)
> # Obsolete and unmaintained for years. You should switch > # to one of the many available alternatives like (#508854): Okay, I've removed gnome-games and installed several replacement packages like games-board/gnome-chess. Problem is, all apps which expected to have some icons in top bar show empty boxes (only first icon with main app's menu is correct). For example, gnome-chess miss icons for: "Undo your most recent move", "Open a saved game", "Save the current game", one button without hint and last button which closes app window. I've installed x11-themes/gnome-themes-standard and tried to use gtk-chtheme and gtk-theme-switch to set theme, but this doesn't fixed this issue with icons. Next I've installed x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-symbolic and this fixed this issue. So, I'm not sure is x11-themes/gnome-themes-standard really needed, but x11-themes/gnome-icon-theme-symbolic should be added as dependency for these packages (probably all matching games-*/gnome-*).
(In reply to Alex Efros from comment #47) I would open a new bug report for that concrete issue as it's looks like a missing dependency problem to me :) Thanks
Can we please keep x11-themes/gnome-themes and x11-themes/gnome-themes-extras? These contain fantastic GTK+ 2 themes; I haven't found any in the tree that work as well. These have exactly one dep in the gnome category, gnome-base/librsvg (at least from a 1-level-deep qdepends run), and this isn't masked.
why is media-libs/swfdec caught up in this ? it's not specific to GNOME-2.
swfdec development stopped years ago so even if it's not gnome2 specific, we do not see the point in keeping it around. If you want to take its maintainership, please go ahead.
(In reply to Gilles Dartiguelongue from comment #51) > swfdec development stopped years ago so even if it's not gnome2 specific, we > do not see the point in keeping it around. > > If you want to take its maintainership, please go ahead. Also bug 496384, 513836, 525334 for now... but probably more could appear as swfdec is dead for ages
I second the question why evince is being removed. Also, chromium is using gnome-keyring: is there any way to move to other method of encryption (if any) without losing the passwords?
gnome-keyring isn't going to be removed... but you need to update it. About evince, it's a bit more deeply explained at bug 525124
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #54) > gnome-keyring isn't going to be removed... but you need to update it. About > evince, it's a bit more deeply explained at bug 525124 ... just found that newer chrome requires newer keyring anyway, bug 520078 ... but ... are you saying newer gnome keyring doesn't require the experimental gtk+ 3? Let me check ... no. It forces gcr with gtk use flag, which then require gtk+ 3. About evince, yes, it's more deeply explained at bug 525124 why it's good idea to leave it :)
experimental gtk+3? Trying to run 2.32 stuff that is completely unmaintained and dead for ages is probably more "experimental" that gtk+:3
(In reply to Pacho Ramos from comment #56) > experimental gtk+3? Trying to run 2.32 stuff that is completely unmaintained > and dead for ages is probably more "experimental" that gtk+:3 I'll gladly switch to 2.40 if you make some. I already have glib 2.40, but I wasn't able to find gtk+:2 newer that 2.24.24 nor gnome keyring newer that 2.32. Note that I'm NOT running gnome. Nor KDE. But lot of programs needs gtk+, like firefox for example (of course, stable gtk+:2). And some needs even more.
Are there any chance to keep app-office/pinpoint in tree? It's true that there were no formal releases since 2011, but its github repo doesn't seem to be abandoned: https://github.com/GNOME/pinpoint I can take the package as proxied maintainer if it's necessary.
+ 25 Oct 2014; Pacho Ramos <pacho@gentoo.org> package.mask: + Unmask pinpoint (#508854#c58 by Ferenc Erki) +
done
Why was gnome-panel-3.8.0 removed? It is not a gnome-2 package. It was removed somewhere between https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=376708 and https://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=377202. Any reasons for that move? gnome-panel is needed by the fallback session in gnome-3.
Official gnome fallback session doesn't use gnome-panel at all, it uses a set of extensions for gnome-shell to make it look similar to old gnome. Latest gnome-panel versions are related with Gnome Flashback project... a project we tried to support in 3.8.x series that ended up being a complete failure as the people maintaining it at that time stepped down, it was then incompatible with 3.10... now, there are new people handling it, but I am completely against reintroducing it until we see it's "stable" enough and well maintained for at least some gnome cycles. People should really move to mate instead of Gnome Flashback for now. If some day Gnome Flashback becomes really usable (and that doesn't mean it "compiles" for one version and we need to wait for other two cycles to other random people to fix it again...) we could consider its addition.
*** Bug 533100 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***